4 ms·

This of course begs the question: which cheeses act as the most efficient substrates, and why? I wonder if there's any organic materials that would work even b

This of course begs the question: which cheeses act as the most efficient substrates, and why? I wonder if there's any organic materials that would work even better.

jacknews 7y ago
Indeed that "sandwich cheese" looks not dissimilar to PCB anyway.
b3orn 7y ago
I'd suggest a cheese with as little holes as possible, maybe Gouda, Cheddar or Parmigiano.
IndrekR 7y ago
> I wonder if there's any organic materials that would work even better. PCBs are using mostly organic resin. Mechanical constraints limit many otherwise excellent dielectrics. Also the cheese seems to have quite high loss tangent here. A quick test to this theory at 2.4 GHz involves a microwave oven, thermometer, pieces of RF laminate and dry cheese.
willis936 7y ago
Empirically, it boils down permittivity and conductance of the material. I am not familiar with the physical factors that influence that. For real applications there are other important factors too though. If your substrate gets moldy in a week then it would be hard to package and sell it to a customer.
- mannykannot 7y ago
  Would those properties also relate to how well / fast the food can be cooked in a microwave oven?
  - willis936 7y ago
    Certainly. Those parameters and the geometry they're in can be distilled into impedance (see: S-parameters). The larger the difference in impedance, the less power gets through (see: return loss). For microwave ovens you only really care about material properties at 2.4 GHz, since that is where the power is. I'm under the impression this was chosen because water has a resonance at this frequency, and absorbs a lot of power.
- wyldfire 7y ago
  > If your substrate gets moldy in a week then it would be hard to package and sell it to a customer. So you're saying I should be selling a substrate service subscription? I like it! MRR here I come!
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  > If your substrate gets moldy in a week then it would be hard to package and sell it to a customer. Clearly you've not worked for Cisco...
  - cardiffspaceman 7y ago
    Sysco? (Only for the humor I have no idea what Sysco's reputation in food service is)

This of course begs the question: which cheeses act as the most efficient substrates, and why? I wonder if there's any organic materials that would work even better.

jacknews 7y ago

Indeed that "sandwich cheese" looks not dissimilar to PCB anyway.

b3orn 7y ago

I'd suggest a cheese with as little holes as possible, maybe Gouda, Cheddar or Parmigiano.

IndrekR 7y ago

> I wonder if there's any organic materials that would work even better. PCBs are using mostly organic resin. Mechanical constraints limit many otherwise excellent dielectrics. Also the cheese seems to have quite high loss tangent here. A quick test to this theory at 2.4 GHz involves a microwave oven, thermometer, pieces of RF laminate and dry cheese.

willis936 7y ago

Empirically, it boils down permittivity and conductance of the material. I am not familiar with the physical factors that influence that. For real applications there are other important factors too though. If your substrate gets moldy in a week then it would be hard to package and sell it to a customer.

mannykannot 7y ago
Would those properties also relate to how well / fast the food can be cooked in a microwave oven?
- willis936 7y ago
  Certainly. Those parameters and the geometry they're in can be distilled into impedance (see: S-parameters). The larger the difference in impedance, the less power gets through (see: return loss). For microwave ovens you only really care about material properties at 2.4 GHz, since that is where the power is. I'm under the impression this was chosen because water has a resonance at this frequency, and absorbs a lot of power.
wyldfire 7y ago
> If your substrate gets moldy in a week then it would be hard to package and sell it to a customer. So you're saying I should be selling a substrate service subscription? I like it! MRR here I come!
peterwwillis 7y ago
> If your substrate gets moldy in a week then it would be hard to package and sell it to a customer. Clearly you've not worked for Cisco...
- cardiffspaceman 7y ago
  Sysco? (Only for the humor I have no idea what Sysco's reputation in food service is)