5 ms·

Parts are hard to come by for their mass market models too, it's crazy.

by jonknee 7y ago

ianai 7y ago
What are owners supposed to do? Are there any indications these cars fail so rarely?
- twblalock 7y ago
  Most of the problems I've heard of with the newer Tesla models involve replacement body parts to repair damage from accidents, especially the glass roofs of the new Model 3.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >What are owners supposed to do? Take a lesson and buy more wisely next time?
- pjc50 7y ago
  It's smartphone engineering: when it breaks, you're supposed to throw it away and buy a new one. /s
  - benj111 7y ago
    From one angle this isn't so unreasonable. If your car never breaks down, why fix it when it does. There are already plenty of sealed units in a car. If your 2nd gear went, you'd replace the whole box. Id be interested to know what proportion of phones actually break (except user imposed damage) before they reach the end of their useful lives, I would guess very few.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      > actually break (except user imposed damage) before they reach the end of their useful lives I'm not sure that distinction into those three categories is actually useful. Almost nothing breaks within normal use in a few years. "User damage" through cracked screens is a major factor in phone end of life. And the other determinant of "useful life" is either the battery or the operating system, both of which are under the control of the manufacturer.
      - benj111 7y ago
        My point is most of a phone is reliable, it will reliably outlast peoples need for it. I have never heard anyone complain about their processor breaking, or ram. If the processor breaks the expectation is you buy a new phone, and that's reasonable because there isn't a reason to do it any other way. One of the promises of EVs is vastly improved reliability. Isnt it plausible if motors reliably last 500k miles that the infrastructure will never be built to replace them, and instead you'll just replace the car. Its plausible we're already at that stage with engines? If garages just become glorified body (phone repair) shops, aren't we at the scenario to gp described?
    - AmVess 7y ago
      It's pretty unreasonable for many components in a car if you are paying for it yourself. There's a Model S owner who is on the 7th drive unit replacement for his car. This is a $15,000 unit. These cars are too expensive to be disposable, but that's where they are headed because parts are difficult or impossible to obtain out of warranty.
      - benj111 7y ago
        Right, that isnt a car that never breaks down though. Teslas might not be at the required reliability to day, EVs one day might be. Re price, an interesting point. Do I not repair my TV because its so reliable, or because the replacement is cheap?
        mikestew 7y ago
        Teslas might not be at the required reliability to day, EVs one day might be. EVs already are, they’re just not made by Tesla. — Happy Leaf Owner for Eight Trouble-Free Years
        jbarberu 7y ago
        Or because it's very non-repairable? I've repaired two of my old NESes, but wouldn't try my TV either. As a happy car DIYer I really appreciate when parts come in small replaceable units that I can swap out.
        benj111 7y ago
        How many of your tvs have you actually needed to repair though? My 14inch CRT broke, but then I had given it to my parents because I had a flat screen. I replaced the flat screen because the hdmi was out of date, it didn't have digital, etc, etc, etc. So I'm on my third tv in 25(?) years and none of them have broken (for me). I could see a nes being different as that's attached to a library of games and aren't made anymore. I would guess if they were still being made, and there was competition, a nes would be very cheap, and not worth repairing. You only appreciate the easily replaceable units because you have to replace them
    - heeen2 7y ago
      Phones would last much longer if you could swap the battery again
      - gambiting 7y ago
        Which....you absolutely can. Maybe not by yourself, but a phone shop down the road will swap any battery in any phone for like ~£30. It's really not an issue at all. Most people just don't want to and the end of battery life usually concides with people feeling like they want something new and fresh, so it's a very convenient excuse to justify getting a new phone - while replacing the battery wouldn't be an issue in the slightest.
        ChuckNorris89 7y ago
        Sure, but the quality of the battery that the shop down the road will install is questionable and often below the OEM originall since the manufacturer has no incentive to sell their OEM parts outside of their service network. YMMV but I replaced the battery on my Samsung Note with two off eBay and in both cases the life was similar to the original that already had 2 years worth of wear.
        lightedman 7y ago
        "YMMV but I replaced the battery on my Samsung Note with two off eBay and in both cases the life was similar to the original that already had 2 years worth of wear." I see you forgot to clear the old battery information from your phone before installing the new one - the phone is still assuming you've got the old battery in and measuring as such. batterystats.bin (Android) needs to be cleared before installing a new battery, so that it is forced to get fresh information on the installed battery.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >Are there any indications these cars fail so rarely? It's less that they fail often, in the traditional sense. The problem is that they are poorly manufactured, and the flaws manifest themselves as major issues for owners eventually. In theory, the cars should fail less than ICE, by virtue of having fewer mechanical parts. What do owners do? Complain on Twitter and hope for the best.
Shivetya 7y ago
my only concern about owning the model 3 is what happens when something breaks. However while Tesla gets a bad rap here and in many cases deserves it I have already experienced a similar problem first hand both with VW and Chevrolet. Fortunately for VW the issue I experienced will never resurface because they cannot sell TDI models anymore. Still I am hoping that by 2021 or at worst 2022 there is a viable alternative to look at. I will be really loathe to give up OTA let alone the simplicity of the interior. Do not under estimate the game changer that OTA is, it is completely contrary to how all other automobile manufacturers operate; one of my peeves that helped convince me to trade my Volt. Working for the major automotive replacement parts company I am always expecting all manufacturers, from automobiles down to phones, make parts available for third party repair facilities and owners.
- gambiting 7y ago
  That's why I'm really interested in leasing one next year - if anything breaks, the leasing company has to fix it or provide me with an alternative, they own the car after all. I really want a Model 3 but I would never buy it to own.
  - brianwawok 7y ago
    There is a tidy profit for the leasing company for taking this fear over for you.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      Actually, for some reason leasing ends up cheaper than PCP, so it looks like you're paying extra for the ability to buy the car out at the end, which I don't particularly care about.
      - wil421 7y ago
        If I buy and you lease for 4 years who will come out better at the end if keep mine for 8-10 years?
smileysteve 7y ago
But this is true of many car models; I've done 3 projects on my 2004 BMW post 2012 (where as time passed, more parts become available); one of the last years before everything became more computer integrated, where there weren't significant, cheap, readily available parts - Xenon Headlight Baskets; factory headlights only sold as a sealed unit (that would likely suffer the same burn issue), aftermarket whole units don't have self leveling to be road legal; Had to find from a crashed 2006 on eBay and modify. - Windshield washer pump. This simple pump didn't become readily available in parts stores until about 2013. The factory unit costs 10x what it should cost. - Valve cover gasket; the best one is the OEM bmw, brand, any aftermarket part is likely to leak sooner rather than later.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- wil421 7y ago
  e46? I had a 2000 and it was extremely easy to find parts. Denso AC compressor, idler pulley, belt tensioner, coils, wheel bearing, and a window motor. Everything was reasonably priced and I had choices of OEM, Aftermarket, or Genuine BMW. The AC compressor was the only part I didn’t buy Genuine because of the massive up-charge. Amazon had lots of OEM options that were the same brand as Genuine BMW. I would’ve changed the gasket but I “totaled” it. A cheap gasket is going to cause problems. BMWs are expensive and you have to be very careful of aftermarket parts or you’ll cause more issues.
  - smileysteve 7y ago
    Coils are another thing that were slow to make it to the autoparts store. Much of this is probably because of the 100k mile warranties common on cars today, autoparts stores are less likely to stock parts until each model has the majority of owners outside of the factory warranty coverage.
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  > I've done 3 projects on my 2004 BMW post 2012 (where as time passed, more parts become available); one of the last years before everything became more computer integrated, where there weren't significant, cheap, readily available parts This is a far cry from there being no parts, cheap or otherwise. And even if there aren't OEM parts I'm betting there are tons of knockoff and third party/performance/budget parts you can get too, which these Tesla owners also cannot.

Parts are hard to come by for their mass market models too, it's crazy.

ianai 7y ago

What are owners supposed to do? Are there any indications these cars fail so rarely?

twblalock 7y ago
Most of the problems I've heard of with the newer Tesla models involve replacement body parts to repair damage from accidents, especially the glass roofs of the new Model 3.
coldtea 7y ago
>What are owners supposed to do? Take a lesson and buy more wisely next time?
pjc50 7y ago
It's smartphone engineering: when it breaks, you're supposed to throw it away and buy a new one. /s
- benj111 7y ago
  From one angle this isn't so unreasonable. If your car never breaks down, why fix it when it does. There are already plenty of sealed units in a car. If your 2nd gear went, you'd replace the whole box. Id be interested to know what proportion of phones actually break (except user imposed damage) before they reach the end of their useful lives, I would guess very few.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    > actually break (except user imposed damage) before they reach the end of their useful lives I'm not sure that distinction into those three categories is actually useful. Almost nothing breaks within normal use in a few years. "User damage" through cracked screens is a major factor in phone end of life. And the other determinant of "useful life" is either the battery or the operating system, both of which are under the control of the manufacturer.
    - benj111 7y ago
      My point is most of a phone is reliable, it will reliably outlast peoples need for it. I have never heard anyone complain about their processor breaking, or ram. If the processor breaks the expectation is you buy a new phone, and that's reasonable because there isn't a reason to do it any other way. One of the promises of EVs is vastly improved reliability. Isnt it plausible if motors reliably last 500k miles that the infrastructure will never be built to replace them, and instead you'll just replace the car. Its plausible we're already at that stage with engines? If garages just become glorified body (phone repair) shops, aren't we at the scenario to gp described?
  - AmVess 7y ago
    It's pretty unreasonable for many components in a car if you are paying for it yourself. There's a Model S owner who is on the 7th drive unit replacement for his car. This is a $15,000 unit. These cars are too expensive to be disposable, but that's where they are headed because parts are difficult or impossible to obtain out of warranty.
    - benj111 7y ago
      Right, that isnt a car that never breaks down though. Teslas might not be at the required reliability to day, EVs one day might be. Re price, an interesting point. Do I not repair my TV because its so reliable, or because the replacement is cheap?
      - mikestew 7y ago
        Teslas might not be at the required reliability to day, EVs one day might be. EVs already are, they’re just not made by Tesla. — Happy Leaf Owner for Eight Trouble-Free Years
      - jbarberu 7y ago
        Or because it's very non-repairable? I've repaired two of my old NESes, but wouldn't try my TV either. As a happy car DIYer I really appreciate when parts come in small replaceable units that I can swap out.
        benj111 7y ago
        How many of your tvs have you actually needed to repair though? My 14inch CRT broke, but then I had given it to my parents because I had a flat screen. I replaced the flat screen because the hdmi was out of date, it didn't have digital, etc, etc, etc. So I'm on my third tv in 25(?) years and none of them have broken (for me). I could see a nes being different as that's attached to a library of games and aren't made anymore. I would guess if they were still being made, and there was competition, a nes would be very cheap, and not worth repairing. You only appreciate the easily replaceable units because you have to replace them
  - heeen2 7y ago
    Phones would last much longer if you could swap the battery again
    - gambiting 7y ago
      Which....you absolutely can. Maybe not by yourself, but a phone shop down the road will swap any battery in any phone for like ~£30. It's really not an issue at all. Most people just don't want to and the end of battery life usually concides with people feeling like they want something new and fresh, so it's a very convenient excuse to justify getting a new phone - while replacing the battery wouldn't be an issue in the slightest.
      - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
        Sure, but the quality of the battery that the shop down the road will install is questionable and often below the OEM originall since the manufacturer has no incentive to sell their OEM parts outside of their service network. YMMV but I replaced the battery on my Samsung Note with two off eBay and in both cases the life was similar to the original that already had 2 years worth of wear.
        lightedman 7y ago
        "YMMV but I replaced the battery on my Samsung Note with two off eBay and in both cases the life was similar to the original that already had 2 years worth of wear." I see you forgot to clear the old battery information from your phone before installing the new one - the phone is still assuming you've got the old battery in and measuring as such. batterystats.bin (Android) needs to be cleared before installing a new battery, so that it is forced to get fresh information on the installed battery.
navigatesol 7y ago
>Are there any indications these cars fail so rarely? It's less that they fail often, in the traditional sense. The problem is that they are poorly manufactured, and the flaws manifest themselves as major issues for owners eventually. In theory, the cars should fail less than ICE, by virtue of having fewer mechanical parts. What do owners do? Complain on Twitter and hope for the best.

Shivetya 7y ago

my only concern about owning the model 3 is what happens when something breaks. However while Tesla gets a bad rap here and in many cases deserves it I have already experienced a similar problem first hand both with VW and Chevrolet. Fortunately for VW the issue I experienced will never resurface because they cannot sell TDI models anymore. Still I am hoping that by 2021 or at worst 2022 there is a viable alternative to look at. I will be really loathe to give up OTA let alone the simplicity of the interior. Do not under estimate the game changer that OTA is, it is completely contrary to how all other automobile manufacturers operate; one of my peeves that helped convince me to trade my Volt. Working for the major automotive replacement parts company I am always expecting all manufacturers, from automobiles down to phones, make parts available for third party repair facilities and owners.

gambiting 7y ago
That's why I'm really interested in leasing one next year - if anything breaks, the leasing company has to fix it or provide me with an alternative, they own the car after all. I really want a Model 3 but I would never buy it to own.
- brianwawok 7y ago
  There is a tidy profit for the leasing company for taking this fear over for you.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    Actually, for some reason leasing ends up cheaper than PCP, so it looks like you're paying extra for the ability to buy the car out at the end, which I don't particularly care about.
    - wil421 7y ago
      If I buy and you lease for 4 years who will come out better at the end if keep mine for 8-10 years?

smileysteve 7y ago

But this is true of many car models; I've done 3 projects on my 2004 BMW post 2012 (where as time passed, more parts become available); one of the last years before everything became more computer integrated, where there weren't significant, cheap, readily available parts - Xenon Headlight Baskets; factory headlights only sold as a sealed unit (that would likely suffer the same burn issue), aftermarket whole units don't have self leveling to be road legal; Had to find from a crashed 2006 on eBay and modify. - Windshield washer pump. This simple pump didn't become readily available in parts stores until about 2013. The factory unit costs 10x what it should cost. - Valve cover gasket; the best one is the OEM bmw, brand, any aftermarket part is likely to leak sooner rather than later.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
wil421 7y ago
e46? I had a 2000 and it was extremely easy to find parts. Denso AC compressor, idler pulley, belt tensioner, coils, wheel bearing, and a window motor. Everything was reasonably priced and I had choices of OEM, Aftermarket, or Genuine BMW. The AC compressor was the only part I didn’t buy Genuine because of the massive up-charge. Amazon had lots of OEM options that were the same brand as Genuine BMW. I would’ve changed the gasket but I “totaled” it. A cheap gasket is going to cause problems. BMWs are expensive and you have to be very careful of aftermarket parts or you’ll cause more issues.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  Coils are another thing that were slow to make it to the autoparts store. Much of this is probably because of the 100k mile warranties common on cars today, autoparts stores are less likely to stock parts until each model has the majority of owners outside of the factory warranty coverage.
FussyZeus 7y ago
> I've done 3 projects on my 2004 BMW post 2012 (where as time passed, more parts become available); one of the last years before everything became more computer integrated, where there weren't significant, cheap, readily available parts This is a far cry from there being no parts, cheap or otherwise. And even if there aren't OEM parts I'm betting there are tons of knockoff and third party/performance/budget parts you can get too, which these Tesla owners also cannot.