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>If there is no afterlife, then what IS the point of this life? If there is no afterlife, no elsewhere, then the takeaway is not that nothing matters, or that

>If there is no afterlife, then what IS the point of this life? If there is no afterlife, no elsewhere, then the takeaway is not that nothing matters, or that life has no point. Rather, it is the opposite: what we do in the here and now is the only thing that will ever matter.

gremlinsinc 7y ago
This! This is my philosophy, I picked it up from some stoic readings and teachings. Either you can be depressed and hate life and wallow in depression or take the easy way out or you can stop and find beauty in the 80-100 years we're given while on this rock. I used to be depressed and wanting to take the easy way out, now that I have two little boys -- I'm afraid of missing out on their lives. Missing just one major milestone scares me, but I know I could die anytime and miss their graduation, or wedding, or grandkids -- it makes me appreciate everything more.
- rubicon33 7y ago
  > I used to be depressed and wanting to take the easy way out, now that I have two little boys This is what I don't understand. You were depressed, recognized life as meaningless and without persistence, and yet you felt like it was a good idea to bring someone else into this world? I'll truly never understand the rational of people who are able to convince themselves of what they want to hear. I gather that you weren't all that depressed to begin with, and your view of the world not very bleak at all, if you felt like bringing other lives into it was a good idea. That, or selfishness is something you're not averse to.
  - gremlinsinc 7y ago
    I was more 'numb' and going with 'the flow'...doing what my wife wanted..cause I really didn't want/care about anything. Life was just a surreal numbness, so why not just let her be happy if I couldn't be... But now I find joy in so many things, I get angry as fuck when I see someone on tv hurting a little child in a movie or on the news, I have new dad emotions I never knew existed. I cry whenever I hear the song Fade in / Fade out, because I know someday I'll cease to exist and my kids will go on without me, and I worry about how they will do, or what I'll miss... I also traded depression in for 24/7 anxiety about whether or not the kids are going to find a way to kill themselves that I haven't thought about. The other day my 2 year old came out of his room with a belt wrapped around his neck... scared the shit out of me. It was hung up but apparently he climbed on something to get it down... I'm not numb and disassociated anymore. I enjoy the now, and live for the small moments. Everyone is selfish. Even mother theresa --nobody does good works without expecting something in return. Is it selfish to have kids? I don't think so. Do dogs and cats have selfish tendencies then? What about all other animals? If so then it's just natural to be selfish and I'm just being 'natural'. My main point was until you're a father you'll never experience the whole gamut of life's experiences and will miss out on something amazing -- getting to relive your childhood through your kids. Not to mention children tend to keep you younger longer, mine will be graduating when I'm almost 60.
    - rubicon33 7y ago
      > Is it selfish to have kids? With respect... at no point did you even describe the impetus to have kids as a means of gifting someone else an existence. You describe your reasoning as being entirely for your own gain... So how can you not see it as selfish? Does that mean it's WRONG? No. I'm not saying you're a bad person, or that you did the wrong thing. You're 100% right when you say that it's "natural". I'd even say that for the community at-large, NOT having kids is more detrimental than otherwise. I just can't bring myself to do it though. When I think about having kids I immediately see my hypothetical child, in my minds eye, being born with cerebral palsy, or childhood leukemia, or bi polar disorder. How could I look them in the eye and say, I'm sorry? I'm sorry, I knew it was a risk and I still chose to roll the dice. I'm sorry that I struggled my entire life with finding meaning, and true happiness, but I still chose to bring you into this to fill a void in myself. Now you get to suffer, like I did, until you choose to bring another life here. No. It stops here. Clearly, I disagree with the natural state of things. I don't think it's fair to subject someone to a life they didn't ask to live when you simply can't guarantee them anything. Their life isn't, or rather shouldn't, be in my hands. I'm not god. Someone should assess whether they want this or not. Life is one big dice roll, and they should be able to assess the risk themselves before taking the plunge. Obviously that's not possible. Obviously the world I describe isn't the one we live in.

gremlinsinc 7y ago

This! This is my philosophy, I picked it up from some stoic readings and teachings. Either you can be depressed and hate life and wallow in depression or take the easy way out or you can stop and find beauty in the 80-100 years we're given while on this rock. I used to be depressed and wanting to take the easy way out, now that I have two little boys -- I'm afraid of missing out on their lives. Missing just one major milestone scares me, but I know I could die anytime and miss their graduation, or wedding, or grandkids -- it makes me appreciate everything more.

rubicon33 7y ago
> I used to be depressed and wanting to take the easy way out, now that I have two little boys This is what I don't understand. You were depressed, recognized life as meaningless and without persistence, and yet you felt like it was a good idea to bring someone else into this world? I'll truly never understand the rational of people who are able to convince themselves of what they want to hear. I gather that you weren't all that depressed to begin with, and your view of the world not very bleak at all, if you felt like bringing other lives into it was a good idea. That, or selfishness is something you're not averse to.
- gremlinsinc 7y ago
  I was more 'numb' and going with 'the flow'...doing what my wife wanted..cause I really didn't want/care about anything. Life was just a surreal numbness, so why not just let her be happy if I couldn't be... But now I find joy in so many things, I get angry as fuck when I see someone on tv hurting a little child in a movie or on the news, I have new dad emotions I never knew existed. I cry whenever I hear the song Fade in / Fade out, because I know someday I'll cease to exist and my kids will go on without me, and I worry about how they will do, or what I'll miss... I also traded depression in for 24/7 anxiety about whether or not the kids are going to find a way to kill themselves that I haven't thought about. The other day my 2 year old came out of his room with a belt wrapped around his neck... scared the shit out of me. It was hung up but apparently he climbed on something to get it down... I'm not numb and disassociated anymore. I enjoy the now, and live for the small moments. Everyone is selfish. Even mother theresa --nobody does good works without expecting something in return. Is it selfish to have kids? I don't think so. Do dogs and cats have selfish tendencies then? What about all other animals? If so then it's just natural to be selfish and I'm just being 'natural'. My main point was until you're a father you'll never experience the whole gamut of life's experiences and will miss out on something amazing -- getting to relive your childhood through your kids. Not to mention children tend to keep you younger longer, mine will be graduating when I'm almost 60.
  - rubicon33 7y ago
    > Is it selfish to have kids? With respect... at no point did you even describe the impetus to have kids as a means of gifting someone else an existence. You describe your reasoning as being entirely for your own gain... So how can you not see it as selfish? Does that mean it's WRONG? No. I'm not saying you're a bad person, or that you did the wrong thing. You're 100% right when you say that it's "natural". I'd even say that for the community at-large, NOT having kids is more detrimental than otherwise. I just can't bring myself to do it though. When I think about having kids I immediately see my hypothetical child, in my minds eye, being born with cerebral palsy, or childhood leukemia, or bi polar disorder. How could I look them in the eye and say, I'm sorry? I'm sorry, I knew it was a risk and I still chose to roll the dice. I'm sorry that I struggled my entire life with finding meaning, and true happiness, but I still chose to bring you into this to fill a void in myself. Now you get to suffer, like I did, until you choose to bring another life here. No. It stops here. Clearly, I disagree with the natural state of things. I don't think it's fair to subject someone to a life they didn't ask to live when you simply can't guarantee them anything. Their life isn't, or rather shouldn't, be in my hands. I'm not god. Someone should assess whether they want this or not. Life is one big dice roll, and they should be able to assess the risk themselves before taking the plunge. Obviously that's not possible. Obviously the world I describe isn't the one we live in.