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33 here - Never cared much for religion..they look, act, feel like cults but there's an approved list of these cults apparently. Having a kid changed my life fo

33 here - Never cared much for religion..they look, act, feel like cults but there's an approved list of these cults apparently. Having a kid changed my life for the better but I was probably in the "not so important" boat before that happened. The big one for me is patriotism. When I was younger I was quite conservative, very pro-USA, refused to believe that any country could possibly do anything better than the way we were doing it. Then I started traveling and actually experiencing the rest of the world, and all of those things just faded away. I'm still an American - I love the 4th of July and believe in our country's future. I just don't subscribe to the notion that the USA is best and that I should be proud of it no matter what, or that American's are somehow special relative to anyone else.

asdf21 7y ago
We are easily the best large country (over 150M population or so) as far as any sort of civil liberties, standards of living, etc.
- paulsutter 7y ago
  Having lived in Japan I assure you that you're mistaken. Have you travelled? EDIT: I'm fine with a search by Japanese police, yet I would never answer a question asked by a policeman in the US except through a lawyer. What does that say about civil liberties?
  - asdf21 7y ago
    Sure Japan is not nearly as large, and has basically zero ethnic diversity, but it's probably the next closet thing. Did you notice how many higher population countries you passed up to get there..? - China - India - Indonesia - Brazil - Pakistan - Nigeria - Bangladesh - Russia - Mexico
  - jdsully 7y ago
    Funny you mentioned Japan. All the travel videos I see warn you the police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious (so you better answer when they ask!). It doesn’t sound like a great place for civil liberties.
    - thereare5lights 7y ago
      > police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious That literally happens in the US as well.
      - jdsully 7y ago
        Police cannot bring you to the police station for merely being suspicious. The standard is much higher for an arrest. They are allowed to pat down the outside of your pockets under the argument they need to be aware of weapons. I do agree this is heavily abused with stop & frisk which frankly shouldn't be legal if the police initiate the contact. But they cannot search inside without your permission. As far as legal systems go, if the CEO of Nissan was held 3 weeks without charge in Japan what hope does the average person have?
        thereare5lights 7y ago
        You are talking about areas where police are held accountable. In areas where they flout the law such as Baltimore, they do whatever they want and then sort it out later.
  - mrkstu 7y ago
    I think the previous poster would be correct if you added the qualifier of multi-ethnic.
- oblio 7y ago
  Ok, but past a certain point, let's say 20 million or to be conservative 50 million people, population numbers stop mattering for you as an individual. The average American (out of >330m) won't have a radically better life than a Frenchman (out of >65m) or a German (out of >80m). It's a nice collective achievement to be able to scale to so many people, but individually, I don't think there's a huge individual benefit once the overall population crosses a certain threshold.
- Judgmentality 7y ago
  I think you are forgetting about the US healthcare system and how horrible it is compared to the rest of the modern world.
pacala 7y ago
Patriotism is not believing your county is best. Patriotism is believing it's worthwhile to strive to make your country better.
- stochastic_monk 7y ago
  Many Americans were raised with a sort of nationalism people simply called patriotism.
- sixstringtheory 7y ago
  This is really well put, so much so that I searched to see if it was actually a quote. Didn't find it, but did find an interesting one from Bernard Shaw [0]: "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it." I am not well read on him so don't know the context or his intention, but after a quick scan of his wikipedia page I saw that he admired Hitler and Stalin, professed a belief in dictatorship and criticized the Nuremburg trials [1]. Would love to hear more from someone knowledgable on him. In any case, I want to print your comment on stickers or tshirts or something. Spot on! [0]: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_bernard_shaw_386924 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_bernard_shaw_38692... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw#1930s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw#1930s
  - pacala 7y ago
    Go for it!
- ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
  Patriotism is whatever anyone wants it to be to prove whatever point seems pertinent at the time But what’s clear is that it’s about trying to get you to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of whatever group is seeking to attain power
i_am_nomad 7y ago
You can love your country without considering it to be perfect. In fact, the best kind of patriotism is the “if wrong, then make right” type. That being said, I do believe there are some special aspects to American culture which we should be proud of, and which attract immigrants from around the world.
- devoply 7y ago
  Less corruption and more job opportunity / money I think sums it up for most people. Maybe rights and freedoms being a peripheral concern but for most people their countries of origins are free enough in that they know how to act not to get into trouble. Outside of that I don't think America has much of a culture.
  - barongrounds 7y ago
    More job opportunities for the highly educated, absolutely. But I think you'd be suprised at just how corrupt and oligarchic the US is perceived internationally. No other western first world country comes close.
  - redblacktree 7y ago
    I'll guess you aren't into sports. America has a huge sports culture. In my biased opinion, there are no better sports the world over than basketball and (American) football, both invented here. And the fact that we have states gives us some sense of "civic" pride attached to our local teams. College sports are similar. I'm glued to the screen when Purdue plays basketball. Europe has a basketball league, but the best players play here in the NBA. I'm not a big fan of hockey, and I know Canadians claim it, but the best players play in the NHL (National here being the US, despite teams in Canadian cities)

asdf21 7y ago

We are easily the best large country (over 150M population or so) as far as any sort of civil liberties, standards of living, etc.

paulsutter 7y ago
Having lived in Japan I assure you that you're mistaken. Have you travelled? EDIT: I'm fine with a search by Japanese police, yet I would never answer a question asked by a policeman in the US except through a lawyer. What does that say about civil liberties?
- asdf21 7y ago
  Sure Japan is not nearly as large, and has basically zero ethnic diversity, but it's probably the next closet thing. Did you notice how many higher population countries you passed up to get there..? - China - India - Indonesia - Brazil - Pakistan - Nigeria - Bangladesh - Russia - Mexico
- jdsully 7y ago
  Funny you mentioned Japan. All the travel videos I see warn you the police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious (so you better answer when they ask!). It doesn’t sound like a great place for civil liberties.
  - thereare5lights 7y ago
    > police can (and will) question you, search your pockets, etc. And can detain you at the police station for merely being suspicious That literally happens in the US as well.
    - jdsully 7y ago
      Police cannot bring you to the police station for merely being suspicious. The standard is much higher for an arrest. They are allowed to pat down the outside of your pockets under the argument they need to be aware of weapons. I do agree this is heavily abused with stop & frisk which frankly shouldn't be legal if the police initiate the contact. But they cannot search inside without your permission. As far as legal systems go, if the CEO of Nissan was held 3 weeks without charge in Japan what hope does the average person have?
      - thereare5lights 7y ago
        You are talking about areas where police are held accountable. In areas where they flout the law such as Baltimore, they do whatever they want and then sort it out later.
- mrkstu 7y ago
  I think the previous poster would be correct if you added the qualifier of multi-ethnic.
oblio 7y ago
Ok, but past a certain point, let's say 20 million or to be conservative 50 million people, population numbers stop mattering for you as an individual. The average American (out of >330m) won't have a radically better life than a Frenchman (out of >65m) or a German (out of >80m). It's a nice collective achievement to be able to scale to so many people, but individually, I don't think there's a huge individual benefit once the overall population crosses a certain threshold.
Judgmentality 7y ago
I think you are forgetting about the US healthcare system and how horrible it is compared to the rest of the modern world.

pacala 7y ago

Patriotism is not believing your county is best. Patriotism is believing it's worthwhile to strive to make your country better.

stochastic_monk 7y ago
Many Americans were raised with a sort of nationalism people simply called patriotism.
sixstringtheory 7y ago
This is really well put, so much so that I searched to see if it was actually a quote. Didn't find it, but did find an interesting one from Bernard Shaw [0]: "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it." I am not well read on him so don't know the context or his intention, but after a quick scan of his wikipedia page I saw that he admired Hitler and Stalin, professed a belief in dictatorship and criticized the Nuremburg trials [1]. Would love to hear more from someone knowledgable on him. In any case, I want to print your comment on stickers or tshirts or something. Spot on! [0]: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_bernard_shaw_386924 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_bernard_shaw_38692... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw#1930s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw#1930s
- pacala 7y ago
  Go for it!
ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
Patriotism is whatever anyone wants it to be to prove whatever point seems pertinent at the time But what’s clear is that it’s about trying to get you to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of whatever group is seeking to attain power

i_am_nomad 7y ago

You can love your country without considering it to be perfect. In fact, the best kind of patriotism is the “if wrong, then make right” type. That being said, I do believe there are some special aspects to American culture which we should be proud of, and which attract immigrants from around the world.

devoply 7y ago
Less corruption and more job opportunity / money I think sums it up for most people. Maybe rights and freedoms being a peripheral concern but for most people their countries of origins are free enough in that they know how to act not to get into trouble. Outside of that I don't think America has much of a culture.
- barongrounds 7y ago
  More job opportunities for the highly educated, absolutely. But I think you'd be suprised at just how corrupt and oligarchic the US is perceived internationally. No other western first world country comes close.
- redblacktree 7y ago
  I'll guess you aren't into sports. America has a huge sports culture. In my biased opinion, there are no better sports the world over than basketball and (American) football, both invented here. And the fact that we have states gives us some sense of "civic" pride attached to our local teams. College sports are similar. I'm glued to the screen when Purdue plays basketball. Europe has a basketball league, but the best players play here in the NBA. I'm not a big fan of hockey, and I know Canadians claim it, but the best players play in the NHL (National here being the US, despite teams in Canadian cities)