4 ms·

Is not really factory produce-able like original ciabatta- cause one part of the recipe that makes the taste, cant be effectively integrated. Its time. You need

Is not really factory produce-able like original ciabatta- cause one part of the recipe that makes the taste, cant be effectively integrated. Its time. You need little yeast, you put the poolish in a olive-oil covered cup, and put it somewhere cool. And there it stays - for nearly a day. Then you add flour- and let it slowly come all the way. Then for all your work you get little bread. But it tastes oh so good. French bakerys - have a very limited supply of baguetts - because they have limited space to let the dough ripen for a hour or more (if it ripens cold). https://bakerbettie.com/french-baguette-recipe/ https://bakerbettie.com/french-baguette-recipe/ Not interesting on a industrial scale.. which is why you usually get only the tasteless whitebread you usually get.

ceejayoz 7y ago
We manage to factory produce prosciutto, which takes 18 months, cheeses that require years to mature, alcohol that takes decades, etc. 24 hours is no obstacle to a factory.
- LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
  You eat two halfs of prosciutto or a wheel of parmigano every day?
- entee 7y ago
  I agree with you, but I'm curious as to why french bread in stores is universally less good than french bread from dedicated bakers (places like ACME, a Berkeley based bread producer, that sell to larger stores such as Safeway I would classify as dedicated bakers). Maybe something about the volume of dough required to make bread on a truly industrial scale means it's not feasible to knead the dough properly? I was reading that you actually knead a baguette relatively little, but I can see that with a large volume of dough, it would be hard to achieve a uniform dough with very little kneading.
  - ska 7y ago
    There is nothing specific about french bread there - basically any bread produced at an industrial scale is noticeably inferior to the equivalent "human scaled" version if that exists (not always true). Sometimes shockingly so. I suspect if anything was as elementary as "it's the kneading" they would have figured out a way to mimic the better technique. It's more likely that the logic of the industrial scale process itself is inimical to some of the finer points of producing top-shelf breads.
    - dgacmu 7y ago
      Which could be economics: at industrial scale, the relative cost of the ingredients is much higher than the cost of labor. at smaller scale, the labor cost starts to outweigh. so an industrial manufacturer is more tempted to cut costs on ingredient quality. Even if that quality reduction is primarily in service of variance reduction (i.e., going with a wheat supplier who can guarantee availability in large quantities year round, instead of continuously needing to tweak recipes to work with different wheats). In many cases, the extra delay between production and consumption of a large industrial manufacturer also leads them to pursue solutions that improve shelf-stability.
  - Haga 7y ago
    Factorys Arena antagonistic processes. Theire Target mantra is forever: faster,cheaper,expandieren core audience.. that Kind oft System reduces any Kind oft Qualität target to american Toast with caramel(color) and some high speed cultures(tastelicios). It requires constant aktive resistance to prevent imprudecay.
- _eLRIC 7y ago
  Mass producing baguette is done in many supermarket in France, but I've never tasted any good one coming out of it Producing a good baguette is an art, meaning that a good boulanger knows how to take into account many external factors like humidity in the air to adapt the recipe (% of water, prep time, cooking time). produce consistent result and a baguette that taste good and fresh for a full day. As for the number of baguettes produced in one batch, it is also because baguettes (different from other bread that last serveral days) are really better fresh. Fresh from the oven (for breakfast !) is best, half a day is good, 1.5 day and still good means you have a very good boulanger.
  - marmaduke 7y ago
    Baker is the English word. I don't think the taste of mass produced baguettes is so bad as the lack of texture. And they are usually over cooked
    - _eLRIC 7y ago
      A Baker makes bread but a boulanger is required to make a baguette ! I always find industrial baguettes under cooked, but you raise an important point : it all come back to personnal preferences and that's for me the special thing about the baguette, so few ingredients and so many variations in taste ...
      - OJFord 7y ago
        IMO in supermarkets in the UK they're both under and over cooked - too consistent in colour and texture throughout. In France, even in les supermarchés you get a nice crisp exterior and soft fluffy inside.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Supermarkets are going to target "cheap and good enough", in general. An industrial-scale factory can control for a lot of those external factors - it's a lot more likely to have humidity and temperature control, automation that ensures precise timings and measurements, etc. I do agree that freshness is key with breads like this - there's nothing like a freshly baked one, and I still miss the morning croissant and baguette from when I stayed in Paris years ago.
- ska 7y ago
  It's perhaps worth noting that in your examples also (hams, cheeses, whisky, etc.) the very best stuff is far more likely to be small batch and eschews many of the "industry standard" approaches for larger producers. The reasons may well be similar to bread.
grawprog 7y ago
They sell mass produced 'french baguettes' at the grocery store i go to regularly. They're not as good as the in store baked ones but they're passable. Definitely noticably different to the standard mass produced white bread.
nostalgk 7y ago
All the French bakeries I went to actually had a huge amount of fresh baguettes, absolutely delicious and 35 cents each. Maybe they were bad compared to gourmet baguettes, of course, but they were great compared to the American variants
- Ecco 7y ago
  Average baguette price in France is 88 cents. Not sure you could find a 35c one anywhere. Unless it was it really long while ago :-)
  - Kuinox 7y ago
    They often sell low quality baguette along with the high priced one.
    - LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
      Low quality baguett -> white bread in baguett shape, not a baguett. There is a price point where the product is no longer the same product. And factory produced goods always go low.

ceejayoz 7y ago

We manage to factory produce prosciutto, which takes 18 months, cheeses that require years to mature, alcohol that takes decades, etc. 24 hours is no obstacle to a factory.

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
You eat two halfs of prosciutto or a wheel of parmigano every day?
entee 7y ago
I agree with you, but I'm curious as to why french bread in stores is universally less good than french bread from dedicated bakers (places like ACME, a Berkeley based bread producer, that sell to larger stores such as Safeway I would classify as dedicated bakers). Maybe something about the volume of dough required to make bread on a truly industrial scale means it's not feasible to knead the dough properly? I was reading that you actually knead a baguette relatively little, but I can see that with a large volume of dough, it would be hard to achieve a uniform dough with very little kneading.
- ska 7y ago
  There is nothing specific about french bread there - basically any bread produced at an industrial scale is noticeably inferior to the equivalent "human scaled" version if that exists (not always true). Sometimes shockingly so. I suspect if anything was as elementary as "it's the kneading" they would have figured out a way to mimic the better technique. It's more likely that the logic of the industrial scale process itself is inimical to some of the finer points of producing top-shelf breads.
  - dgacmu 7y ago
    Which could be economics: at industrial scale, the relative cost of the ingredients is much higher than the cost of labor. at smaller scale, the labor cost starts to outweigh. so an industrial manufacturer is more tempted to cut costs on ingredient quality. Even if that quality reduction is primarily in service of variance reduction (i.e., going with a wheat supplier who can guarantee availability in large quantities year round, instead of continuously needing to tweak recipes to work with different wheats). In many cases, the extra delay between production and consumption of a large industrial manufacturer also leads them to pursue solutions that improve shelf-stability.
- Haga 7y ago
  Factorys Arena antagonistic processes. Theire Target mantra is forever: faster,cheaper,expandieren core audience.. that Kind oft System reduces any Kind oft Qualität target to american Toast with caramel(color) and some high speed cultures(tastelicios). It requires constant aktive resistance to prevent imprudecay.
_eLRIC 7y ago
Mass producing baguette is done in many supermarket in France, but I've never tasted any good one coming out of it Producing a good baguette is an art, meaning that a good boulanger knows how to take into account many external factors like humidity in the air to adapt the recipe (% of water, prep time, cooking time). produce consistent result and a baguette that taste good and fresh for a full day. As for the number of baguettes produced in one batch, it is also because baguettes (different from other bread that last serveral days) are really better fresh. Fresh from the oven (for breakfast !) is best, half a day is good, 1.5 day and still good means you have a very good boulanger.
- marmaduke 7y ago
  Baker is the English word. I don't think the taste of mass produced baguettes is so bad as the lack of texture. And they are usually over cooked
  - _eLRIC 7y ago
    A Baker makes bread but a boulanger is required to make a baguette ! I always find industrial baguettes under cooked, but you raise an important point : it all come back to personnal preferences and that's for me the special thing about the baguette, so few ingredients and so many variations in taste ...
    - OJFord 7y ago
      IMO in supermarkets in the UK they're both under and over cooked - too consistent in colour and texture throughout. In France, even in les supermarchés you get a nice crisp exterior and soft fluffy inside.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Supermarkets are going to target "cheap and good enough", in general. An industrial-scale factory can control for a lot of those external factors - it's a lot more likely to have humidity and temperature control, automation that ensures precise timings and measurements, etc. I do agree that freshness is key with breads like this - there's nothing like a freshly baked one, and I still miss the morning croissant and baguette from when I stayed in Paris years ago.
ska 7y ago
It's perhaps worth noting that in your examples also (hams, cheeses, whisky, etc.) the very best stuff is far more likely to be small batch and eschews many of the "industry standard" approaches for larger producers. The reasons may well be similar to bread.

grawprog 7y ago

They sell mass produced 'french baguettes' at the grocery store i go to regularly. They're not as good as the in store baked ones but they're passable. Definitely noticably different to the standard mass produced white bread.

nostalgk 7y ago

All the French bakeries I went to actually had a huge amount of fresh baguettes, absolutely delicious and 35 cents each. Maybe they were bad compared to gourmet baguettes, of course, but they were great compared to the American variants

Ecco 7y ago
Average baguette price in France is 88 cents. Not sure you could find a 35c one anywhere. Unless it was it really long while ago :-)
- Kuinox 7y ago
  They often sell low quality baguette along with the high priced one.
  - LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
    Low quality baguett -> white bread in baguett shape, not a baguett. There is a price point where the product is no longer the same product. And factory produced goods always go low.