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There is no question that these are Buddhist swastikas; they are clockwise and also rotated 45 degrees compared to the most common nazi version. It is difficul

by krilly 7y ago

There is no question that these are Buddhist swastikas; they are clockwise and also rotated 45 degrees compared to the most common nazi version. It is difficult to appreciate how ubiquitous swastikas are in the Buddhist world until you go there and see them everywhere. I have no doubt that this was an innocent decision.

isbjorn16 7y ago
It stopped being an innocent decision once it was pointed out and he doubled down. Put another way: I cannot put my or my employer's interests in Western markets at risk because something is acceptable in Eastern markets. The maintainer can do whatever he wants to do; I'm not questioning that. I'm just saying I won't be using it, even if it would save me from sphinx-autodoc fragility.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- samstave 7y ago
  We need to find to re-own the fucking swastika. Jeasus was fucking murdered on a cross, supposedly made to cary it on his shoulders and forced to wear a crown of thorns. So lets assume (which they did) jewish slaves were forced to make their own death chambers and concentration camps, and where the term ghetto comes from. We have operation paperclip for example. SpaceX wouldnt have existed without the work of the nazi V2 units etc... So stop editing history. The fucking cia wouldnt have existed without the oss... etc etc. So we need to reclaim the fucking swastika as a buddhist symbol for over a THOUSAND years.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    We need to find to re-own the fucking swastika. I'd be happy not seeing references to any religion and, quite frankly, I would hesitate to associate my employer with anything espousing religious dogma.
    - samstave 7y ago
      Fuck all the downvoters, im not +1-ing Nazis... they fucking stole that symbol! Its thousands of years old. Nazis have a bad name because they were fucking nazis! The swastika is an ancient Sanskrit symbol which represents the churn of time and and the cycle of the universe. Its really interesting to think about how the symbol has been coopted to be edited out of human conscience such that we dont recognize its symbology for the cycle of time and now its only associated with WWII People are so stupid with symbology it boggles my mind: Source: mayan order centurion, masons, rosicrucian.
  - atoav 7y ago
    Wait — you want people to stop “editing” history and then want to go back to a version of the symbol’s history before the holocaust? Hint: if you change history by appending to it, it is not changing history it is writing it. If you look back into history and check what happend, that is reading history. If you want to delete lines that don’t fit your world view from the history, that is editing. How would you go back to the original meaning of the swatsika without denying the existence of Nazi Germany and what it did? (Greets from Germany btw)
    - hope-striker 7y ago
      You can stop giving the Nazis so much influence over your life, for starters. Just accept that they, like plenty of societies before them, used a certain cool logo, but that's no reason to hate that logo, or to never use it again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Historical_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Historical_use
      - atoav 7y ago
        I grew up in a Austrian Province with a 40% rightwing majority, most of which hailed Hitler after a few beers and one of my grandfathers was a convinced nazi. Be convinced I thought enough about how much influence nazis have about my life, be it direct or by the positions I take to oppose them. And yeah: Nazis don’t go away of you don’t talk to them or ignore their existence. Just because you tolerate them won’t mean they will tolerate you. And on the symbol: the swatsika in western culture is forever stained. This might be different if we were a grown up society that managed to deal properly with the past — but you can be sure that this week some young neo nazi tatoos the swatsika on their skin as a symbol of their racial hate — and while that is still going on a simple redefinition (that neo nazis would love to see), is frankly speaking naive.
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  > I cannot put my or my employer's interests in Western markets at risk because something is acceptable in Eastern markets My employer works in both markets, so rejecting something because it's Eastern would look much worse than rejecting it because someone in one market might not know what it is. Anyway, it's a tiny icon on the boiler plate of a dependency of a project used to generate documentation. It would be a huge stretch to say your employer supports Nazis because of this.
  - isbjorn16 7y ago
    I highly doubt the absence of any religious iconography is going to harm my employer in eastern markets.
- burntsushi 7y ago
  As the original author of pdoc, thanks for not using pdoc3, which---even separate from the Nazi imagery---is something that I consider to be an unethical fork. You might instead consider using the original pdoc, which is now maintained by mitmproxy[1]. Although, it does seem like activity on the project has waned. [1] - https://github.com/mitmproxy/pdoc https://github.com/mitmproxy/pdoc
dragonwriter 7y ago
> There is no question that these are Buddhist swastikas; they are clockwise They are paired mirror images, so they are both clockwise and counterclockwise.
- atoav 7y ago
  Sure and waving a banana to a black soccer player is “just showing a fruit”. Communication is about the message the receiver gets independent of your intention. So if you use a swatsika in your online work and you are not a (ignorant, given the context) buddhist, you probably: - suck at communicating - are a troll - are a nazi The last two are often indistinguishable, as real neo nazis nowadays hide behind ironic jokes and statements they follow up with “just kidding”, as part of a deliberate strategy to normalize their messages and wear off their shock value. Or you are an idiot who thinks you are so very cleverly defending the freedom of speech of neo nazis by reminding everybody that the holocaust has in fact happend. In any case we can all congratulate the bright mind who thought that all through.
  - stevenjohns 7y ago
    Not sure if you're accidentally excluding the >1 billion Hindus (and Jains) from your list or if that was an intentional dog whistle towards Indians and other South Asians. I'll assume it's the former. The reason why I'll assume it's the former is because we should always assume good faith - it's even a posting guideline on HN[0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - atoav 7y ago
      It was accidental, but I also didn’t really intend to give an exhaustive list of uses here. Also we are talking about a swatsika beeing used with near certainty in a western context. Maybe my reaction was indeed a little too “alergic” — I grew up in Austria and I have memories of Nazi grandfathers giving their neonazi ancestors all those nazi insignia. People who after the 10th beer start praising Hitler and demand new genozides, once they are in power again. Given my background seeing somebody claiming their swatsika is not linked to nazis because it faces the wrong way is just something that doesn’t fly — I have heared that (and similar) excuses far too often from people who were definitly convinced nazis. Btw. I don’t know if that guy is a nazi or someone who wants to provoke, but he certainly seems to know about the difference between right and left facing swatsika and thus could’ve anticipated the whole discussion.
lucasmullens 7y ago
His github profile picture is the swastika counter-clockwise. It's very clear from that his intention is to include things that appear like the Nazi swastika but are technically not. That's bad intention in my book.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by krilly 7y ago

isbjorn16 7y ago

It stopped being an innocent decision once it was pointed out and he doubled down. Put another way: I cannot put my or my employer's interests in Western markets at risk because something is acceptable in Eastern markets. The maintainer can do whatever he wants to do; I'm not questioning that. I'm just saying I won't be using it, even if it would save me from sphinx-autodoc fragility.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
samstave 7y ago
We need to find to re-own the fucking swastika. Jeasus was fucking murdered on a cross, supposedly made to cary it on his shoulders and forced to wear a crown of thorns. So lets assume (which they did) jewish slaves were forced to make their own death chambers and concentration camps, and where the term ghetto comes from. We have operation paperclip for example. SpaceX wouldnt have existed without the work of the nazi V2 units etc... So stop editing history. The fucking cia wouldnt have existed without the oss... etc etc. So we need to reclaim the fucking swastika as a buddhist symbol for over a THOUSAND years.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  We need to find to re-own the fucking swastika. I'd be happy not seeing references to any religion and, quite frankly, I would hesitate to associate my employer with anything espousing religious dogma.
  - samstave 7y ago
    Fuck all the downvoters, im not +1-ing Nazis... they fucking stole that symbol! Its thousands of years old. Nazis have a bad name because they were fucking nazis! The swastika is an ancient Sanskrit symbol which represents the churn of time and and the cycle of the universe. Its really interesting to think about how the symbol has been coopted to be edited out of human conscience such that we dont recognize its symbology for the cycle of time and now its only associated with WWII People are so stupid with symbology it boggles my mind: Source: mayan order centurion, masons, rosicrucian.
- atoav 7y ago
  Wait — you want people to stop “editing” history and then want to go back to a version of the symbol’s history before the holocaust? Hint: if you change history by appending to it, it is not changing history it is writing it. If you look back into history and check what happend, that is reading history. If you want to delete lines that don’t fit your world view from the history, that is editing. How would you go back to the original meaning of the swatsika without denying the existence of Nazi Germany and what it did? (Greets from Germany btw)
  - hope-striker 7y ago
    You can stop giving the Nazis so much influence over your life, for starters. Just accept that they, like plenty of societies before them, used a certain cool logo, but that's no reason to hate that logo, or to never use it again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Historical_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Historical_use
    - atoav 7y ago
      I grew up in a Austrian Province with a 40% rightwing majority, most of which hailed Hitler after a few beers and one of my grandfathers was a convinced nazi. Be convinced I thought enough about how much influence nazis have about my life, be it direct or by the positions I take to oppose them. And yeah: Nazis don’t go away of you don’t talk to them or ignore their existence. Just because you tolerate them won’t mean they will tolerate you. And on the symbol: the swatsika in western culture is forever stained. This might be different if we were a grown up society that managed to deal properly with the past — but you can be sure that this week some young neo nazi tatoos the swatsika on their skin as a symbol of their racial hate — and while that is still going on a simple redefinition (that neo nazis would love to see), is frankly speaking naive.
peterwwillis 7y ago
> I cannot put my or my employer's interests in Western markets at risk because something is acceptable in Eastern markets My employer works in both markets, so rejecting something because it's Eastern would look much worse than rejecting it because someone in one market might not know what it is. Anyway, it's a tiny icon on the boiler plate of a dependency of a project used to generate documentation. It would be a huge stretch to say your employer supports Nazis because of this.
- isbjorn16 7y ago
  I highly doubt the absence of any religious iconography is going to harm my employer in eastern markets.
burntsushi 7y ago
As the original author of pdoc, thanks for not using pdoc3, which---even separate from the Nazi imagery---is something that I consider to be an unethical fork. You might instead consider using the original pdoc, which is now maintained by mitmproxy[1]. Although, it does seem like activity on the project has waned. [1] - https://github.com/mitmproxy/pdoc https://github.com/mitmproxy/pdoc

dragonwriter 7y ago

> There is no question that these are Buddhist swastikas; they are clockwise They are paired mirror images, so they are both clockwise and counterclockwise.

atoav 7y ago
Sure and waving a banana to a black soccer player is “just showing a fruit”. Communication is about the message the receiver gets independent of your intention. So if you use a swatsika in your online work and you are not a (ignorant, given the context) buddhist, you probably: - suck at communicating - are a troll - are a nazi The last two are often indistinguishable, as real neo nazis nowadays hide behind ironic jokes and statements they follow up with “just kidding”, as part of a deliberate strategy to normalize their messages and wear off their shock value. Or you are an idiot who thinks you are so very cleverly defending the freedom of speech of neo nazis by reminding everybody that the holocaust has in fact happend. In any case we can all congratulate the bright mind who thought that all through.
- stevenjohns 7y ago
  Not sure if you're accidentally excluding the >1 billion Hindus (and Jains) from your list or if that was an intentional dog whistle towards Indians and other South Asians. I'll assume it's the former. The reason why I'll assume it's the former is because we should always assume good faith - it's even a posting guideline on HN[0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - atoav 7y ago
    It was accidental, but I also didn’t really intend to give an exhaustive list of uses here. Also we are talking about a swatsika beeing used with near certainty in a western context. Maybe my reaction was indeed a little too “alergic” — I grew up in Austria and I have memories of Nazi grandfathers giving their neonazi ancestors all those nazi insignia. People who after the 10th beer start praising Hitler and demand new genozides, once they are in power again. Given my background seeing somebody claiming their swatsika is not linked to nazis because it faces the wrong way is just something that doesn’t fly — I have heared that (and similar) excuses far too often from people who were definitly convinced nazis. Btw. I don’t know if that guy is a nazi or someone who wants to provoke, but he certainly seems to know about the difference between right and left facing swatsika and thus could’ve anticipated the whole discussion.

lucasmullens 7y ago

His github profile picture is the swastika counter-clockwise. It's very clear from that his intention is to include things that appear like the Nazi swastika but are technically not. That's bad intention in my book.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]