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My father wouldn't have cared about an iPad. Gadgets are not a substitute for quality of life; they are merely a means of distraction. I would argue that you ar

My father wouldn't have cared about an iPad. Gadgets are not a substitute for quality of life; they are merely a means of distraction. I would argue that you are the one missing the point. The difference between being rich and poor is not possessions, and it can't be easily summed up in a quantitative manner. The difference is especially visible in the areas of influence, confidence, and security. Rich people have the money and the connections to do pretty much anything they want to, to be able to convince other people to do their bidding. They likely grew up in a home where they learned the proper etiquette to enable them to operate smoothly in nearly any social situation. Even if someone doesn't have the etiquette down, that person can still gain confidence by wearing fine clothing or driving a luxury car. Finally, rich people always have a contingency plan; they don't have to worry about becoming insolvent due to an unexpected injury or loss of property. If you grew up middle class and haven't been rich or poor, you just can't see it. I grew up somewhat poor, and I experienced firsthand the lack of security, and the little bit of influence I had was entirely based on my accomplishments. We busted our asses all summer when I was twelve so that we would have a place to live before we ran out of money. We went to the dentist once in about ten years, and the cure for most of our ailments was water and rest (antibiotics, what?). My dad worked insane hours as a laborer and barely slept just to keep food on the table and a roof over our head. I couldn't be "cool" at school because we didn't have money to buy nice clothes, much less keep up with the latest fashions. And just recently, while seeking work after college, I experienced the awful reality of having creditors call daily, and prioritizing which bills to pay not by due date but by necessity. I've recently started a job where we operate a lot in more privileged social circles. Rich people have country club memberships that allow them to socialize with other rich people and get deals done that are simply impossible for anyone else. We dress up in suits that feel great, look great, and inspire confidence; I had a wonderful time this past New Year with several people I didn't know -- I was wearing an outfit that cost more than I had earned in six months before getting this job. I've been given resources that show me how to navigate parties and flourish in any social situation. I can convince a dude to get on his knees and shine my shoes simply by giving him some money; I can convince my boss (who has written books on security and cryptography) to review and advise my spare-time-work on a new filesystem, partly thanks to a mutual respect that is an automatic result of belonging to the same social circle. Don't kid yourself. Being rich is way different from being poor. I don't see any way that can ever change. Not everyone can get what they want.

presidentender 16y ago
Please, tell me more about poverty, as I have never lived it and cannot possibly understand. Then I will tell you more about life before electricity, which I understand completely. The second clause of each of those sentences has the same truth value as the other.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  I don't really follow what you're saying here. I was simply trying to illustrate the difference between being rich or poor. It has very little to do with A/C or gadgets. For the most part, the difference in the amount of enjoyment, food, shelter, and safety that I had as a child as compared to now is negligible. The changes in influence and confidence are profound, and after a couple years at this job I will be quite secure. Being rich is about having the choice to do what you want to do in life. The poor can't outsource unpleasant tasks, they can't take profitable risks, and they have a hard time convincing others to do what they want them to do (without the assistance of a weapon). No amount of increasing world wealth is going to change that. In terms of life skills, the human population is a bell curve and there are always going to be some people who are better than others.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
You are correct - even though the poor are now middle class (in terms of standard of living), they have not increased in social status. This is unavoidable. Status seeking is a zero sum game. And even if the rich didn't achieve status (which many don't, BTW), there would still be status-poor individuals: the ugly, the socially inept, and the people with better things to do than engage in signalling.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  I largely agree with you, but I think framing the argument in terms of "status seeking" is slightly disingenuous. Etiquette is not all about status seeking. Placing cutlery at 4:22 when you are finished with your meal seems like a silly etiquette rule, but it signals the wait staff that you are finished, and increases efficiency for the restaurant, the staff, and the dinner guests. Knowing who to tip and how much increases the happiness and satisfaction of everyone involved in service transactions by managing expectations and fulfilling them, increasing stability for everyone. Keeping an up-to-date address book for your acquaintances is something that I never heard of growing up; I have one childhood friend who has asked for my address three times in the last year. I could go on, but the real point is that the ability to operate with proper etiquette is a signal to others who are doing the same. You are telling each other that you are friendly, respectful, courteous, and have an attention to detail. When it comes to getting things done, a group of people like this working together are going to be more productive than a random group of people lacking the same social skills but otherwise having similar abilities. Removing friction and conflict by following seemingly-silly conventions is not zero sum. Among the truly wealthy, this is not status-seeking behavior, it's simply what one does. It only looks like status-seeking to those who are not "playing the game." I first realized this when reading YouTube comments for a dining etiquette video (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIj5Rt-7b9I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIj5Rt-7b9I). The majority of Americans (myself included) were not taught these methods, and they think that it's absolutely silly. Those who grew up doing this are wondering what kind of barbarians do not eat in this way. Those who host parties know that if everyone eats with "proper etiquette," you can fit more people around a table and limit the spread of germs (e.g. placing dirty silverware back on the table).

presidentender 16y ago

Please, tell me more about poverty, as I have never lived it and cannot possibly understand. Then I will tell you more about life before electricity, which I understand completely. The second clause of each of those sentences has the same truth value as the other.

BrandonM 16y ago
I don't really follow what you're saying here. I was simply trying to illustrate the difference between being rich or poor. It has very little to do with A/C or gadgets. For the most part, the difference in the amount of enjoyment, food, shelter, and safety that I had as a child as compared to now is negligible. The changes in influence and confidence are profound, and after a couple years at this job I will be quite secure. Being rich is about having the choice to do what you want to do in life. The poor can't outsource unpleasant tasks, they can't take profitable risks, and they have a hard time convincing others to do what they want them to do (without the assistance of a weapon). No amount of increasing world wealth is going to change that. In terms of life skills, the human population is a bell curve and there are always going to be some people who are better than others.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

You are correct - even though the poor are now middle class (in terms of standard of living), they have not increased in social status. This is unavoidable. Status seeking is a zero sum game. And even if the rich didn't achieve status (which many don't, BTW), there would still be status-poor individuals: the ugly, the socially inept, and the people with better things to do than engage in signalling.

BrandonM 16y ago
I largely agree with you, but I think framing the argument in terms of "status seeking" is slightly disingenuous. Etiquette is not all about status seeking. Placing cutlery at 4:22 when you are finished with your meal seems like a silly etiquette rule, but it signals the wait staff that you are finished, and increases efficiency for the restaurant, the staff, and the dinner guests. Knowing who to tip and how much increases the happiness and satisfaction of everyone involved in service transactions by managing expectations and fulfilling them, increasing stability for everyone. Keeping an up-to-date address book for your acquaintances is something that I never heard of growing up; I have one childhood friend who has asked for my address three times in the last year. I could go on, but the real point is that the ability to operate with proper etiquette is a signal to others who are doing the same. You are telling each other that you are friendly, respectful, courteous, and have an attention to detail. When it comes to getting things done, a group of people like this working together are going to be more productive than a random group of people lacking the same social skills but otherwise having similar abilities. Removing friction and conflict by following seemingly-silly conventions is not zero sum. Among the truly wealthy, this is not status-seeking behavior, it's simply what one does. It only looks like status-seeking to those who are not "playing the game." I first realized this when reading YouTube comments for a dining etiquette video (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIj5Rt-7b9I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIj5Rt-7b9I). The majority of Americans (myself included) were not taught these methods, and they think that it's absolutely silly. Those who grew up doing this are wondering what kind of barbarians do not eat in this way. Those who host parties know that if everyone eats with "proper etiquette," you can fit more people around a table and limit the spread of germs (e.g. placing dirty silverware back on the table).