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The term "barely meat" as used in the parent was definitely talking about the ground beef you get at fast food restaraunts. Which has been shown in lots of case

The term "barely meat" as used in the parent was definitely talking about the ground beef you get at fast food restaraunts. Which has been shown in lots of cases to contain additives, notably taco bell etc. You brought up chicken because it's harder to call it barely meat, but fast food chicken is still shittier.

tptacek 7y ago
"Shittier" how? Chick-Fil-A's fast-food chicken is likely better than the median supermarket chicken (it's all supposedly antibiotic-free now). I'd like to see a better grounded argument, one that doesn't depend entirely on the premise that "fast food meat must be shitty because we disdain fast food".
- acollins1331 7y ago
  You literally agreed with me two comments ago that Tyson chicken is worse than locally (read not mass) produced chicken. Don't try to turn it around again just so you can win an imaginary argument I'm not trying to have.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    Did you read the first half of that comment and not the second? Local chicken is generally "better" than supermarket chicken. That doesn't make supermarket chicken "shitty"; supermarket-grade chicken is necessarily what most people are going to eat, most of the time. It has for more than half a century been our standard, and our standard is better than what preceded it. You can always do better. But I'd like to see a well-grounded argument that KFC-grade chicken is somehow "shitty". I think it's possible that there is one (I think the argument that all fast-food chicken is necessarily shitty is much harder to defend) --- but I haven't seen it yet.
    - wolco 7y ago
      https://www.quora.com/Why-is-KFC-bad-for-our-health https://www.quora.com/Why-is-KFC-bad-for-our-health Summary, too much fat, salt, antibiotics. Chicken tastes watery because they soak it in salt.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        You mean they brine it? Like home cooks have been urged to do by Cooks Illustrated for 20 years?
        wolco 7y ago
        Not familiar with the advice given in Cooks Illustrated over the last 20 years is it related to sport's illustrated where they show you cooks wearing swimsuits. Brining if you can call it that is only step 2. Here's the steps they use to prepare. https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-kfc-actually-makes-their-fried-chicken-from-1651170230 https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-kfc-actually-makes-their-fri... Are those the steps Cooking illustrated gave you? Are you cooking your own kfc at home now? You seem like the guy who went to the coke/pepsi taste test challenge and said they both taste the same.. they taste like 7up.
        mynameisvlad 7y ago
        Those are generally the steps for deep frying chicken, yes. Obviously you'd use home utensils and appliances, but brine -> bread -> fry is basically the only way you're going to get fried chicken. I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to do with that link, but I'm pretty sure your intended outcome wasn't to show that KFC fried chicken is just like any other fried chicken, but with stricter recipes and industrial machines.
        chipotle_coyote 7y ago
        So, from the very first paragraph of the article you linked to: "It's basically like how your grandma would do it—except they use an infernal magic machine called a 'pressure frier.'" Thanks! I feel a lot better about KFC chicken now!
    - windexh8er 7y ago
      > You can always do better. But I'd like to see a well-grounded argument that KFC-grade chicken is somehow "shitty". I'd say if you buy your meat from a local butcher and you know the actual source of the meat, then you'd likely say that raising chickens in high capacity growth sheds doesn't put out what many would define as quality birds. [0] The chicken is likely fine for consumption, agreed. But if you were born, pumped full of feed to make you as fat as fast as possible, and barely had room to move during that time - would you qualify yourself as healthy? Just as an athlete vs a couch potato have significantly different body composition one could assert this is also true for chickens. In the grand scheme you get what you pay for. In a race to the bottom of cheap meat you need scale and it's much easier to throw lots of chickens in a small place than it is to free-range them. Finally, while subjective, it's a common pattern to leverage MSG in products that are of generally low quality. I don't know anyone who puts MSG in recipes using pricier butcher cuts, I know I never have. KFC has Monosodium Glutamate in most things they sell. I guess if you want to stand on a soap box and call out that KFC meat quality isn't "shitty" just because nobody has proven it to you, then more power to you. But, it's hard to argue that there isn't a difference of quality by a mass producer of chicken vs non-mass producing vendors. I mean, it's why people pay more for a friendlier and healthier growth environment for said meats. "Shitty" in the sense of this argument seems rather subjective anyway. But I will say it's hard to argue mass produced chicken isn't "shitty" for the environment. [1][2] [0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2999689/The-35-day-life-KFC-chicken-shed-34-000-birds-Documentary-reveals-conditions-23-million-birds-fast-food-chain-uses-year-kept-in.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2999689/The-35-day-... [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214317316300336 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221431731... [2] https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/77/4/197/5307079 https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/77/4/197/5...
      - tptacek 7y ago
        I'm a little lost here. I agree: heritage birds that are free to roam uncrowded pastures will taste better than CAFO chicken. What's your point? A dry-aged ribeye also tastes better than a bottom round steak. If you're eating dry-aged ribeyes (or heritage chicken) every day, you're wealthy. Congrats, but most people don't have that option.
    - okmokmz 7y ago
      Not arguing about the quality of meat, but how these organizations source their meats are also an important differentiation. Sure, maybe it is 100% chicken meat, but I don't particularly want to eat meat from animals that were essentially tortured and abused their entire lives, and I imagine that has some kind of negative affect on the quality/healthfulness. KFC has been accused of animal cruelty multiple times, and the videos of the factory farms they source meats from are pretty disgustingly shocking.
  - askafriend 7y ago
    Yeah take the L and move on. You didn't even bother to read his comment. There is nuance. Take the time to understand it or don't waste your time commenting at all.
- wcfields 7y ago
  All chicken in the US is technically antibiotic-free. [1] [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/overuse-of-antibiotics/what-no-antibiotic-claims-really-mean/ https://www.consumerreports.org/overuse-of-antibiotics/what-...
  - tptacek 7y ago
    Here I think we’re referring to the “raised without antibiotics” standard.
zrail 7y ago
(Point of order: tptacek probably brought up chicken because TFA is about KFC, a purveyor of ... chicken.)
- tripzilch 7y ago
  The article is about plant-based meat replacements. I think it's ludicrous how everyone in this thread seems to think it's oh so important to argue whether their real meat is actually really good or not.

tptacek 7y ago

"Shittier" how? Chick-Fil-A's fast-food chicken is likely better than the median supermarket chicken (it's all supposedly antibiotic-free now). I'd like to see a better grounded argument, one that doesn't depend entirely on the premise that "fast food meat must be shitty because we disdain fast food".

acollins1331 7y ago
You literally agreed with me two comments ago that Tyson chicken is worse than locally (read not mass) produced chicken. Don't try to turn it around again just so you can win an imaginary argument I'm not trying to have.
- tptacek 7y ago
  Did you read the first half of that comment and not the second? Local chicken is generally "better" than supermarket chicken. That doesn't make supermarket chicken "shitty"; supermarket-grade chicken is necessarily what most people are going to eat, most of the time. It has for more than half a century been our standard, and our standard is better than what preceded it. You can always do better. But I'd like to see a well-grounded argument that KFC-grade chicken is somehow "shitty". I think it's possible that there is one (I think the argument that all fast-food chicken is necessarily shitty is much harder to defend) --- but I haven't seen it yet.
  - wolco 7y ago
    https://www.quora.com/Why-is-KFC-bad-for-our-health https://www.quora.com/Why-is-KFC-bad-for-our-health Summary, too much fat, salt, antibiotics. Chicken tastes watery because they soak it in salt.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      You mean they brine it? Like home cooks have been urged to do by Cooks Illustrated for 20 years?
      - wolco 7y ago
        Not familiar with the advice given in Cooks Illustrated over the last 20 years is it related to sport's illustrated where they show you cooks wearing swimsuits. Brining if you can call it that is only step 2. Here's the steps they use to prepare. https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-kfc-actually-makes-their-fried-chicken-from-1651170230 https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-kfc-actually-makes-their-fri... Are those the steps Cooking illustrated gave you? Are you cooking your own kfc at home now? You seem like the guy who went to the coke/pepsi taste test challenge and said they both taste the same.. they taste like 7up.
        mynameisvlad 7y ago
        Those are generally the steps for deep frying chicken, yes. Obviously you'd use home utensils and appliances, but brine -> bread -> fry is basically the only way you're going to get fried chicken. I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to do with that link, but I'm pretty sure your intended outcome wasn't to show that KFC fried chicken is just like any other fried chicken, but with stricter recipes and industrial machines.
        chipotle_coyote 7y ago
        So, from the very first paragraph of the article you linked to: "It's basically like how your grandma would do it—except they use an infernal magic machine called a 'pressure frier.'" Thanks! I feel a lot better about KFC chicken now!
  - windexh8er 7y ago
    > You can always do better. But I'd like to see a well-grounded argument that KFC-grade chicken is somehow "shitty". I'd say if you buy your meat from a local butcher and you know the actual source of the meat, then you'd likely say that raising chickens in high capacity growth sheds doesn't put out what many would define as quality birds. [0] The chicken is likely fine for consumption, agreed. But if you were born, pumped full of feed to make you as fat as fast as possible, and barely had room to move during that time - would you qualify yourself as healthy? Just as an athlete vs a couch potato have significantly different body composition one could assert this is also true for chickens. In the grand scheme you get what you pay for. In a race to the bottom of cheap meat you need scale and it's much easier to throw lots of chickens in a small place than it is to free-range them. Finally, while subjective, it's a common pattern to leverage MSG in products that are of generally low quality. I don't know anyone who puts MSG in recipes using pricier butcher cuts, I know I never have. KFC has Monosodium Glutamate in most things they sell. I guess if you want to stand on a soap box and call out that KFC meat quality isn't "shitty" just because nobody has proven it to you, then more power to you. But, it's hard to argue that there isn't a difference of quality by a mass producer of chicken vs non-mass producing vendors. I mean, it's why people pay more for a friendlier and healthier growth environment for said meats. "Shitty" in the sense of this argument seems rather subjective anyway. But I will say it's hard to argue mass produced chicken isn't "shitty" for the environment. [1][2] [0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2999689/The-35-day-life-KFC-chicken-shed-34-000-birds-Documentary-reveals-conditions-23-million-birds-fast-food-chain-uses-year-kept-in.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2999689/The-35-day-... [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214317316300336 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221431731... [2] https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/77/4/197/5307079 https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/77/4/197/5...
    - tptacek 7y ago
      I'm a little lost here. I agree: heritage birds that are free to roam uncrowded pastures will taste better than CAFO chicken. What's your point? A dry-aged ribeye also tastes better than a bottom round steak. If you're eating dry-aged ribeyes (or heritage chicken) every day, you're wealthy. Congrats, but most people don't have that option.
  - okmokmz 7y ago
    Not arguing about the quality of meat, but how these organizations source their meats are also an important differentiation. Sure, maybe it is 100% chicken meat, but I don't particularly want to eat meat from animals that were essentially tortured and abused their entire lives, and I imagine that has some kind of negative affect on the quality/healthfulness. KFC has been accused of animal cruelty multiple times, and the videos of the factory farms they source meats from are pretty disgustingly shocking.
- askafriend 7y ago
  Yeah take the L and move on. You didn't even bother to read his comment. There is nuance. Take the time to understand it or don't waste your time commenting at all.
wcfields 7y ago
All chicken in the US is technically antibiotic-free. [1] [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/overuse-of-antibiotics/what-no-antibiotic-claims-really-mean/ https://www.consumerreports.org/overuse-of-antibiotics/what-...
- tptacek 7y ago
  Here I think we’re referring to the “raised without antibiotics” standard.

zrail 7y ago

(Point of order: tptacek probably brought up chicken because TFA is about KFC, a purveyor of ... chicken.)

tripzilch 7y ago
The article is about plant-based meat replacements. I think it's ludicrous how everyone in this thread seems to think it's oh so important to argue whether their real meat is actually really good or not.