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With all due respect you don't know what you're talking about. I grew up very poor. Not only were we on welfare but my mom would turn around and sell the food s

With all due respect you don't know what you're talking about. I grew up very poor. Not only were we on welfare but my mom would turn around and sell the food stamps to get money to buy booze. Yet I still had food, shelter, education and even a few incidental things like toys. There's plenty of assistance available to the poor in this country. What you are mistaking for poor are people with deeper problems. People who are drug addicted. People who have mental illness. And others who for whatever reason can't find a way to function in society. There is plenty to debate about the difference between the poor and the rich but don't mistake those living on the street for the poor in this country because they are something else

jshen 16y ago
a very large percentage of those that can't function are war veterans. I stand by my point that acting like those people don't exist leads to insane statements like the poor are blessed.
- neworbit 16y ago
  Interesting, I hadn't heard that other than anecdotal "I am a vietnam vet please help" - what is that percentage?
  - jshen 16y ago
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-11-07-homeless-veterans_N.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-11-07-homeless-vete...
    - neworbit 16y ago
      Thanks! Now I wonder what percentage of vets are below the poverty line vs outright homeless. I know people who joined up because they were poor to begin with... and in general it seems to have worked out pretty well for them, though none of 'em are particularly rich. But maybe these are the "good work ethic" slice of the bunch? I have nothing but anecdotal evidence.
      - jshen 16y ago
        Your assuming that the environment has little impact on people. I'm making the opposite point, war screws people up. Then we try to act like they don't exist or that they are just lazy.
boredguy8 16y ago
With all due respect, you're one data point. While not minimizing the hardships you went through as a poor child, you were fortunate compared to some. As one report on Los Angeles' health concludes: "On the other hand, if we were to completely eliminate all deaths due to homicide, which is the leading cause of premature death among black males, this would likely have the greatest impact on reducing the disparity in life expectancy between black males and males of other racial/ethnic groups, and would result in a gain of 14 times more life-years at birth for black males relative to white males." [1] "don't mistake those living on the street for the poor" Are they rich? They certainly qualify as poor, even if they also fall into other categories. And you can't simply say "they're poor because of their mental state." You cannot trivially isolate a single variable like mental health or economic status from others. Poor white people in the US generally have a markedly improved experience over poor minorities. For example, a 2010 article examining Toxics Release Inventory Facility (TRIF) locations found a high correlation between placement and ethnic minorities. They found that, "...every race or ethnicity variable is negative and statistically signiﬁcant, indicating that Census units with greater minority populations are closer to new TRIFs than are those tracts with greater proportions of non-Hispanic Whites." [2] So while I and others certainly appreciate your perspective and your experience, you ought probably be careful not to draw conclusions about others' experience as a result. [1] "Life Expectancy in Los Angeles County", from the Office of Health Assessment and Epidemiology, July 2010 [2] "Justice for All? A Cross-Time Analysis of Toxics Release Inventory Facility Location" from the Review of Policy Research, January 2010. This study is particularly informative on the issue of environmental justice because it handles carefully the question of "market rationality" for environmental justice. As many had pointed out, "Individuals making conscious trade-offs to accept more environmental risk in exchange for some desired attribute, such as lower housing prices, does not have the same implications as does the situation in which environmental harms are imposed on existing residents." This study is an attempt to answer the "chicken-or-egg" question of whether environmental harms are imposed on ethnic minorities or if instead poor ethnic minorities make an economic tradeoff decision.
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  Your logic is flawed here. You're basically saying the author's statement that the "poor are blessed in industrialized nations" is incorrect because of people who are not blessed for reasons other than simply being poor. By that same logic we could say the poor are overwhelmingly blessed because some people who are technically poor live in mansions with their wealthy parents. That's why we use generalizations in theoretical discussions. The author uses the generalization of "the poor" as people who are poor but have no other serious problems or benefits. In that context he's right. And my experience confirms that because the aide was there and available to anyone who wanted it. I wasn't special. As I said just the opposite was true. My Mom squandered much of the Aide given to us and we STILL got by. So in a general sense others should be able to as well. Finally as others have pointed out here the author's point is wealth is relative. Even those living on the street of the United States are tons better than many of the people living in third world countries.
jshen 16y ago
"I grew up very poor" ... "Yet I still had food, shelter, education and even a few incidental things like toys." Your definition of "very poor" is not the same as mine. What is your word for someone that doesn't have stable shelter and stable food? There are a lot of people in this country that don't have those things.

jshen 16y ago

a very large percentage of those that can't function are war veterans. I stand by my point that acting like those people don't exist leads to insane statements like the poor are blessed.

neworbit 16y ago
Interesting, I hadn't heard that other than anecdotal "I am a vietnam vet please help" - what is that percentage?
- jshen 16y ago
  http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-11-07-homeless-veterans_N.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-11-07-homeless-vete...
  - neworbit 16y ago
    Thanks! Now I wonder what percentage of vets are below the poverty line vs outright homeless. I know people who joined up because they were poor to begin with... and in general it seems to have worked out pretty well for them, though none of 'em are particularly rich. But maybe these are the "good work ethic" slice of the bunch? I have nothing but anecdotal evidence.
    - jshen 16y ago
      Your assuming that the environment has little impact on people. I'm making the opposite point, war screws people up. Then we try to act like they don't exist or that they are just lazy.

boredguy8 16y ago

With all due respect, you're one data point. While not minimizing the hardships you went through as a poor child, you were fortunate compared to some. As one report on Los Angeles' health concludes: "On the other hand, if we were to completely eliminate all deaths due to homicide, which is the leading cause of premature death among black males, this would likely have the greatest impact on reducing the disparity in life expectancy between black males and males of other racial/ethnic groups, and would result in a gain of 14 times more life-years at birth for black males relative to white males." [1] "don't mistake those living on the street for the poor" Are they rich? They certainly qualify as poor, even if they also fall into other categories. And you can't simply say "they're poor because of their mental state." You cannot trivially isolate a single variable like mental health or economic status from others. Poor white people in the US generally have a markedly improved experience over poor minorities. For example, a 2010 article examining Toxics Release Inventory Facility (TRIF) locations found a high correlation between placement and ethnic minorities. They found that, "...every race or ethnicity variable is negative and statistically signiﬁcant, indicating that Census units with greater minority populations are closer to new TRIFs than are those tracts with greater proportions of non-Hispanic Whites." [2] So while I and others certainly appreciate your perspective and your experience, you ought probably be careful not to draw conclusions about others' experience as a result. [1] "Life Expectancy in Los Angeles County", from the Office of Health Assessment and Epidemiology, July 2010 [2] "Justice for All? A Cross-Time Analysis of Toxics Release Inventory Facility Location" from the Review of Policy Research, January 2010. This study is particularly informative on the issue of environmental justice because it handles carefully the question of "market rationality" for environmental justice. As many had pointed out, "Individuals making conscious trade-offs to accept more environmental risk in exchange for some desired attribute, such as lower housing prices, does not have the same implications as does the situation in which environmental harms are imposed on existing residents." This study is an attempt to answer the "chicken-or-egg" question of whether environmental harms are imposed on ethnic minorities or if instead poor ethnic minorities make an economic tradeoff decision.

TomOfTTB 16y ago
Your logic is flawed here. You're basically saying the author's statement that the "poor are blessed in industrialized nations" is incorrect because of people who are not blessed for reasons other than simply being poor. By that same logic we could say the poor are overwhelmingly blessed because some people who are technically poor live in mansions with their wealthy parents. That's why we use generalizations in theoretical discussions. The author uses the generalization of "the poor" as people who are poor but have no other serious problems or benefits. In that context he's right. And my experience confirms that because the aide was there and available to anyone who wanted it. I wasn't special. As I said just the opposite was true. My Mom squandered much of the Aide given to us and we STILL got by. So in a general sense others should be able to as well. Finally as others have pointed out here the author's point is wealth is relative. Even those living on the street of the United States are tons better than many of the people living in third world countries.

jshen 16y ago

"I grew up very poor" ... "Yet I still had food, shelter, education and even a few incidental things like toys." Your definition of "very poor" is not the same as mine. What is your word for someone that doesn't have stable shelter and stable food? There are a lot of people in this country that don't have those things.