7 ms·
I think it is a rather toxic movement that we are continuing to label things that which they are not. "fried plant-based ‘chicken’" it makes no sense at all A
by thomasfromcdnjs 7y ago
I think it is a rather toxic movement that we are continuing to label things that which they are not.
"fried plant-based ‘chicken’" it makes no sense at all
A lot of it is egged on by the vegan/vegetarians and is the definition of false advertising.
I saw "vegan" mince in the meat section the other day. I feel sorry for the elderly or learning impaired who might be accidentally buying soy substitutes when their bodies are craving meat.
- hodder 7y agoI have never met anyone confused by what beyond meat is offering and find the complaint that it is false advertising is ridiculous.
- yters 7y agoI'm a confused person. I thought 'beyond meat' sold lab grown meat, not vegetables that taste like meat.
- stri8ed 7y agoThe ingredients are listed on the product.
- yters 7y agoAh, exactly what I want as a consumer. Believing I'm purchasing one thing when reading the product name, and finding out it is something else entirely when reading the ingredients list (which I rarely do).
- ceejayoz 7y agoA quick Google search for "beyond meat" reveals lots of photos of their packaging. Every single one of them has large, all-caps, bright green "PLANT BASED" on the front of the package. They're not hiding anything, and anyone confused by it probably has themselves to blame. For example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074YGZ77H/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074YGZ77H/
- yters 7y agoAll meat is plant based :) I only can interpret that label because I'm now cynically familiar with the deceptive advertising practices currently used. But, to someone not used to how advertisers try to make one thing seem to be another, saying 'beyond meat' is 'plant based' does not communicate this thing is just a bunch of vegetables.
- ceejayoz 7y ago> All meat is plant based :) This is a bad-faith argument.
- yters 7y agoHow do 'beyond meat' and 'plant based' communicate 'there is absolutely no meat in this product'? They do not in the English lexicon within my head.
- ceejayoz 7y ago"Beyond Meat" is the brand name, and I suspect that's perfectly clear to people. No one buying "Land O'Lakes" butter expects to open the box and find a diorama of Minnesota inside. I also suspect people who deem beef burgers "plant-based" on a colloquial level are few and far between.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- throwanem 7y agoYou're concerned enough about what you're feeding yourself to complain about what's on the label, but not concerned enough to find out what's on the label?
- untog 7y agoDo you have the same problem with almond milk? Veggie burger patties?
- yters 7y agoLess so. At least those names, though oxymorons, do contain the actual product being sold.
- untog 7y agoAlmond milk doesn't contain any more milk than Beyond Meat burgers contain meat.
- yters 7y agoYes, I'd prefer not calling it milk. But, at least 'almond' in the product name tells me its made of almonds. What does 'beyond meat' tell me? 'beyond' tells me we are going somewhere with 'meat' as our starting point and destination unknown.
- dymk 7y agoAnd in big bold all caps letters on the front is “PLANT BASED MEAT”
- yters 7y agoWhat does that even mean? Is it meat made from animals that eat plants? Is it plants that grow muscles? The one thing this does not communicate is that the contents are not meat.
- sterkekoffie 7y agoSweetmeat and coconut meat are both not animal muscle, while fish, which is animal muscle, is not meat. Distinctions like 'meat' and 'milk' (and pretty much any culinary term) take on meaning according to our conventions and dietary norms, and if plant-based meat grows to fit the same dietary niche as animal meat, people will call them the same thing.
- yters 7y agoDoubleplusgood newspeak!
- sterkekoffie 7y agoI'm not sure what parallels you're trying to suggest but they're probably not valid ones. 'Meat' being used strictly in reference to animal flesh is a relatively recent development. It's shorthand, in fact, so those truly concerned for linguistic integrity might opt to use the original term, "flesh meat."
- yters 7y agoBasically, they are using the connotations of common venacular usage of 'meat' to market something that is the opposite of the venacular 'meat'. Newspeak is all about naming one thing by its opposite, and using the connotations of the latter to hide the real meaning, like 1984's ministry of truth. So, it leaves me with the impression that this is not merely normal advertising by association, but a more agenda driven marketing move to modify people's consumption of meat by modifying language. For some reason, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If eating meat is really so objectively bad, why do you have to try and trick people into not eating it? The more someone has to rely on tricks and deception to achieve their goal, the less likely their goal is actually in everyone's best interest.
- stri8ed 7y agoI think plant-based is actually a selling point currently, so they would be doing themselves a disservice by not making it explicit on the product. I don't expect people to buy it accidentally. As for the wording, I don't see why its any different from veggie burger, or diet soda. Consumers associate these products with certain properties, which can be emulated in the substitutes.
- epmaybe 7y agoWhat combination of words would you like to be used to describe these new foods? Do you feel the same way about soy milk or almond milk?
- dymk 7y agoThe milk industrial complex feels very strongly about it, and has litigated ruthlessly to prevent non-mammal produced milk from having the word milk in it
- untog 7y agoAnd yet actual real-life customers are absolutely fine with it and aren't confused.
- dymk 7y agoExactly, it’s existing entrenched industries who are worried; this is altogether good for consumers though
- sethammons 7y agoExcept they are confused; they just ignore it. I don't think many almond milk buyers have a clue as to how it is made. They chuckle at "Never seen no titties on no almond" and buy it because it is apparently healthier.
- greglindahl 7y ago... and that's despite the fact that non-cow milks have been around and called "milk" for many centuries. For example, almond milk has been used in Western European cooking on Fridays and during Lent.
- NoGravitas 7y agoAlmond milk also was a staple of European baking for centuries before pasteurization, because you couldn't always know that you would have fresh milk on hand when you needed it for baking.
- dwaite 7y agoHow would you propose describing something that has the consistency and flavor of chicken, and which doesn't denigrate the non-chicken product? Quotes and asterisks are as you said not always sufficiently visible differentiators, but misspellings like "Chikken" or the like will usually be trademarked by a particular organization and not be available for widespread usage.
- philwelch 7y ago"Imitation chicken".
- Djvacto 7y agoNot too far of a leap from there to "Impossible chicken". The real crime is that we are gonna have to think of a different name for non-euclidean chicken products.
- trothamel 7y agoChicken-flavored _X_, where _X_ is either a brand name or some generic name for the category. At the end of the day, a chicken is an animal, and chicken is the name for the meat that comes from that animal - and hence, probably shouldn't be used for products that aren't derived from that animal.
- astura 7y agoFirst off, "chicken-flavored" is confusing, it usually means "flavored with chicken". Secondly, language doesn't work that way so we end up soy milk, grasshopper pie, sweetbread, head cheese, cocoa butter, Bombay duck, Rocky Mountain oysters, coconut meat, Welsh rabbit, Mississippi caviar, chicken fingers, ladyfingers, Jerusalem artichokes, and Grapenuts.
- Causality1 7y agoYeah, just like there are thousands of people mistakenly pouring milk of magnesia on their cereal? Absolutely nobody is confused by this outside of the fantasy land inhabited by terrified meat and dairy farmers.
- dymk 7y agoIt literally has in big bold letters on the front “Plant based meat”
- sethammons 7y agoIsn't a cow "plant based meat"?
- astura 7y agoNo.
- hervature 7y agoDon't know why you are being down voted. As a vegan, one of my biggest gripes with the recent movement is the marketing of new products and the obsession of replacing meat with vegetables. To further illustrate your point, imagine trying to replicate carrots using only veal and calling it something like "calf-rots", it absolutely makes no sense. Your issue is primarily with the false representation, my issue is that we're intentionally making it harder to sell vegan/vegetarian alternatives by trying to replicate something unachievable instead of coming up with entirely new products. For example, I highly suspect there's an entire food category like bread that we haven't discovered yet.
- VectorLock 7y agoIt seems like the makers of these products have a dilemma between trying to describe a product in relative terms to meat in which they set themselves up for an unfair comparison or describing their product with no reference to meat ("texturized vegetable protein") and have the customer not have any idea what it is or balk at the phrasing.
- hervature 7y agoIt certainly is a dilemma but I feel choosing the first option is myopic (I want my customers to know "today" what this is) as opposed to long term strategy. If tofu was invented today, would we market it as soy cheese?
- tyingq 7y ago"chicken fries", served in a french fry container, are a thing at some fast food restaurants. So it does happen.
- tobtoh 7y ago> my issue is that we're intentionally making it harder to sell vegan/vegetarian alternatives by trying to replicate something unachievable instead of coming up with entirely new products. Except they are achieving it. I've eaten Beyond Meat patties and they are close enough and good enough. As a 'vegan-curious' eater, products like Beyond Meat are a halfway point which eases the transition to a vegan diet (or at least a diet more balanced towards non-meat products). As more people become more comfortable moving from 7-days a week meat-eating to something less, that is only going to help the vegan market. Beyond Meat will do more to shift a portion of consumers across to vegan diets (at this point in history) than making new 'pure' vegan products.
- sct202 7y agoMost of the vegan meat subs are more expensive, so it's not likely they'll buy it by mistake when normal products are right next it for half the price.
- gdulli 7y agoI've never been a vegetarian and never been tempted by it. However, if meat can be approximated very well then I'm excited by the idea of displacing much of the environmental impact of producing meat. Even if real meat never goes away fully. I don't consider myself problematic for eating meat. However, clinging to meat on principle, to the point of getting triggered like this with accusations and insults, is just shitty.