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This was part of the master plan and roadmap for Java for a long time now. This should not be a surprise or cause any outrage. The roadmap was: 1. Oracle sta

This was part of the master plan and roadmap for Java for a long time now. This should not be a surprise or cause any outrage. The roadmap was: 1. Oracle starts to relicense as open source most parts of the JVM, spinning off OpenJDK in the process. 2. Oracle provides support, patches, community and endeavors to help get OpenJDK self-sustaining. 3. Once OpenJDK is maintained by the open source community and generally healthy, Oracle starts working on proprietary value-add additions that can benefit their customer base (and bank accounts). We're entering phase 3. Oracle, beyond what you might think of them, has done a pretty decent job of following the overall plan. They have helped get the OpenJDK community off the ground and are still invested in its success. Without doing the above, there was real risk that Java would succumb to other more open platforms or be splintered off by companies like IBM, Redhat, etc. Instead, the above plan allowed for Oracle to keep the core of Java in one piece, conceding that other companies would help with its evolution, and still reserve their ability to make a buck later. It's a little shaky right now with all the hubbub about Oracle's licensing of the Oracle JVM. The messaging could have possibly been better. But if you haven't been aware of the OpenJDK and following along with it - if your sole source of all things Java has been Oracle - then it's definitely time for a wake up call. Oracle is now a member of the Java community, not necessarily the driver.

fierarul 7y ago
> Oracle is now a member of the Java community, not necessarily the driver. I agree that, all in all, Oracle told the world what it's going to do and now is executing on the plan. It's no surprise really, and it makes sense that they want to make money somehow from Java considering how much they are putting into it. Still, Oracle is most certainly the driver still. If you look at a chart like [1] you see that Oracle has an order of magnitude more commits than the 2nd company which, surprise, is SAP. Also, if you read the OpenJDK bylaws [2] the OpenJDK Lead will forever be from Oracle as will the Board Chair. Oracle will never lose under a Two-Thirds Majority rule when they have 2 of the 5 seats. Note how AdoptOpenJDK could not run the TCK on the JDK builds which included OpenJ9. 1. https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-jdk-11-together https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-jdk-11... 2. https://openjdk.java.net/bylaws https://openjdk.java.net/bylaws
- taftster 7y ago
  Yeah, good points and thanks for refuting my statement with precise references. I think I was just trying to be a little more generous or wishful with my statement. Maybe I'm hoping that we are heading in a direction that doesn't require Oracle in the lead. Right now, Java needs Oracle as much as ever. And if Oracle continues to provide good leadership and does the right thing by Java, then why not continue to have them in the lead? I'm happy they are there and continue to provide good stewardship for Java. I think the Java community could, if needed, fork Java completely away from Oracle. This would be a major undertaking with a lot of pain, and would definitely require other parties to get even more onboard. But at least now, with the way things are set, this could start to be a possibility if we ever needed it.
pron 7y ago
I work on OpenJDK at Oracle, and there are several inaccuracies in your account. First, not only has OpenJDK not been "spun off", OpenJDK is the name of one and only JDK project at Oracle. It is not the only product, but it is the only project. Second, while we happily cooperate with other contributors like Red Hat and Google, and greatly appreciate their contributions, Oracle is not only very much in the driver seat, but ~90% of the work on OpenJDK is done at Oracle. Nearly 100% of new large features are led by Oracle. Third, I don't know about add-ons, but the transition we've recently done was open source all of the previously proprietary features in Oracle's JDK. Oracle's JDK is, for the first time since Java's inception, 100% open source. I agree that the messaging could be better (we're working on that). The licensing change, from a semi-free/open, semi-proprietary/paid JDK to a 100% open source license combined with optional paid support has, indeed, confused some people. That it came at the same time as a change in how we name our releases has only added to the confusion. In any event, the recommended path is to use the current JDK, for which you get perpetual free support (by which I mean patches and updates) from Oracle, or from other sources. Java 9 was the last major release ever, and if you follow this recommended, default path you'll never have another major upgrade again. We believe that it is the easiest, cheapest upgrade path Java has ever had. Companies that for some reason cannot follow the cheap, easy path and prefer large but planned upgrades, can stick to the paid LTS service, and that is how Oracle funds OpenJDK. In the past, when much of the JDK was closed, Sun and then Oracle funded the JDK by licensing Java for mobile/embedded devices (as there were field-of-use restrictions) as well as that annoying search toolbar, and the sale of quite expensive support. All of that is gone when we changed our funding model. Everything is open source, no field-of-use restrictions and no search toolbar. Everything is funded with support, and the prices have been cut drastically to be competitive with other companies that offer OpenJDK support.

fierarul 7y ago

> Oracle is now a member of the Java community, not necessarily the driver. I agree that, all in all, Oracle told the world what it's going to do and now is executing on the plan. It's no surprise really, and it makes sense that they want to make money somehow from Java considering how much they are putting into it. Still, Oracle is most certainly the driver still. If you look at a chart like [1] you see that Oracle has an order of magnitude more commits than the 2nd company which, surprise, is SAP. Also, if you read the OpenJDK bylaws [2] the OpenJDK Lead will forever be from Oracle as will the Board Chair. Oracle will never lose under a Two-Thirds Majority rule when they have 2 of the 5 seats. Note how AdoptOpenJDK could not run the TCK on the JDK builds which included OpenJ9. 1. https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-jdk-11-together https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/building-jdk-11... 2. https://openjdk.java.net/bylaws https://openjdk.java.net/bylaws

taftster 7y ago
Yeah, good points and thanks for refuting my statement with precise references. I think I was just trying to be a little more generous or wishful with my statement. Maybe I'm hoping that we are heading in a direction that doesn't require Oracle in the lead. Right now, Java needs Oracle as much as ever. And if Oracle continues to provide good leadership and does the right thing by Java, then why not continue to have them in the lead? I'm happy they are there and continue to provide good stewardship for Java. I think the Java community could, if needed, fork Java completely away from Oracle. This would be a major undertaking with a lot of pain, and would definitely require other parties to get even more onboard. But at least now, with the way things are set, this could start to be a possibility if we ever needed it.

pron 7y ago

I work on OpenJDK at Oracle, and there are several inaccuracies in your account. First, not only has OpenJDK not been "spun off", OpenJDK is the name of one and only JDK project at Oracle. It is not the only product, but it is the only project. Second, while we happily cooperate with other contributors like Red Hat and Google, and greatly appreciate their contributions, Oracle is not only very much in the driver seat, but ~90% of the work on OpenJDK is done at Oracle. Nearly 100% of new large features are led by Oracle. Third, I don't know about add-ons, but the transition we've recently done was open source all of the previously proprietary features in Oracle's JDK. Oracle's JDK is, for the first time since Java's inception, 100% open source. I agree that the messaging could be better (we're working on that). The licensing change, from a semi-free/open, semi-proprietary/paid JDK to a 100% open source license combined with optional paid support has, indeed, confused some people. That it came at the same time as a change in how we name our releases has only added to the confusion. In any event, the recommended path is to use the current JDK, for which you get perpetual free support (by which I mean patches and updates) from Oracle, or from other sources. Java 9 was the last major release ever, and if you follow this recommended, default path you'll never have another major upgrade again. We believe that it is the easiest, cheapest upgrade path Java has ever had. Companies that for some reason cannot follow the cheap, easy path and prefer large but planned upgrades, can stick to the paid LTS service, and that is how Oracle funds OpenJDK. In the past, when much of the JDK was closed, Sun and then Oracle funded the JDK by licensing Java for mobile/embedded devices (as there were field-of-use restrictions) as well as that annoying search toolbar, and the sale of quite expensive support. All of that is gone when we changed our funding model. Everything is open source, no field-of-use restrictions and no search toolbar. Everything is funded with support, and the prices have been cut drastically to be competitive with other companies that offer OpenJDK support.