6 ms·

they are making it easier and easier to decide to switch to https://adoptopenjdk.net https://adoptopenjdk.net ...

Bartweiss 7y ago
Brew and apt will both get you openjdk, which is nice. Since that also sets up JAVA_HOME and avoids the ludicrous Ask.com adware Oracle has been bundling, it's become a pretty easy choice.
- taftster 7y ago
  I don't think the Oracle bundling of Ask.com adware has been part of the distribution for a long time now. Like 5-7 years or so? Can't remember exactly. But to your point, the whole fiasco of including ask.com sure gave Java a black eye. This was the worst thing that Oracle could have ever done for the adoption of Java. So dumb. But anyway, all downloads of Java regardless of source (to my knowledge) are free from that adware now. Definitely all the OpenJDK distributions are, which you should likely be using anyway.
  - Bartweiss 7y ago
    Thanks, I didn't realize how out of date I was on that whole Ask debacle. Shows how long it's been since I downloaded the Oracle JDK by hand, I guess... In any case, I'm impressed that OpenJDK manages to be a clear winner on all of access (no login needed), convenience (package managers set up paths), and principle. FOSS doesn't usually have a reputation for being faster and easier to set up than its owned alternatives.
Someone1234 7y ago
That's not a website aimed at consumers though. All the questions they're asking should be hidden in "Other Platforms" with one giant link saying "Latest Release." I don't care about the politics or niche between HotSpot Vs. OpenJ9, and reading the descriptions it sounds like 99% of people who don't know better want HotSpot and JDK 12, so why even ask these questions? That website is a perfect showcase of why OpenJDK isn't popular. Oracle's consumer experienced is ten times better: https://www.java.com/en/ https://www.java.com/en/
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > That's not a website aimed at consumers though. Java isn't aimed at consumers, either.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    So developers are writing Java Runtime software that nobody is running at all?
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      There's a reason B2B is distinguished from B2C.
    - javagram 7y ago
      Oracle recommends developers pack a JRE with their individual applications now. No need for users to install a JRE or even know they’re using a java application.
      - Someone1234 7y ago
        Wouldn't users still need a license to run Oracle's JRE?
        javagram 7y ago
        They don’t need to use oracle JRE. Oracle has fully open-sourced the JRE under GPL (unlike Sun). If an app developer wants to use a version of the JDK other than that freely supplied by Oracle at https://openjdk.java.net/ https://openjdk.java.net/ , they can distribute AdoptOpenJDK, Apache Corretto, or any of the many other openjdk distributions.
- taftster 7y ago
  There is admittedly some baked-in expectation that you understand or have background for the nuances of Java 8, 11, 12 or Hotspot, OpenJ9. The website currently expects you to understand these differences. Good feedback, noted. But honestly, the website itself is not hard to understand. It gives you a choice of three JDK versions (8, 11, 12) which are all supported versions. And it gives you two choices for JVM (Hotspot, OpenJ9). And of course, you need to pick your platform. If you're coming brand new to the Java world, this is most definitely a cumbersome landing page. But for most people already in the Java world, these questions are quite relevant and appropriate. And the default choice (Java 8 + Hotspot) are quite sensible for most newcomers. Oracle's java.com website doesn't really give you the developer experience needed for Java. That's more focused on delivering the end-user JRE, not the developer JDK.
toyg 7y ago
To be brutal, they want exactly that. “All dem troublesome hack3rZ and early adopters” should go play with openjdk, and leave Oracle free to deal only with Big Boys who want Serious Support Contracts for Big Apps that will probably move to Java11 in 5 years’ time (if ever). Oracle is trading (some) control on the ecosystem and tech, for commercial opportunities to monetize the existing userbase. It doesn’t matter to them if 90% of people move to OpenJDK, as long as the remaining 10% (and lower development costs) nets them more money than they make at the moment.

Brew and apt will both get you openjdk, which is nice. Since that also sets up JAVA_HOME and avoids the ludicrous Ask.com adware Oracle has been bundling, it's become a pretty easy choice.

taftster 7y ago
I don't think the Oracle bundling of Ask.com adware has been part of the distribution for a long time now. Like 5-7 years or so? Can't remember exactly. But to your point, the whole fiasco of including ask.com sure gave Java a black eye. This was the worst thing that Oracle could have ever done for the adoption of Java. So dumb. But anyway, all downloads of Java regardless of source (to my knowledge) are free from that adware now. Definitely all the OpenJDK distributions are, which you should likely be using anyway.
- Bartweiss 7y ago
  Thanks, I didn't realize how out of date I was on that whole Ask debacle. Shows how long it's been since I downloaded the Oracle JDK by hand, I guess... In any case, I'm impressed that OpenJDK manages to be a clear winner on all of access (no login needed), convenience (package managers set up paths), and principle. FOSS doesn't usually have a reputation for being faster and easier to set up than its owned alternatives.

Someone1234 7y ago

That's not a website aimed at consumers though. All the questions they're asking should be hidden in "Other Platforms" with one giant link saying "Latest Release." I don't care about the politics or niche between HotSpot Vs. OpenJ9, and reading the descriptions it sounds like 99% of people who don't know better want HotSpot and JDK 12, so why even ask these questions? That website is a perfect showcase of why OpenJDK isn't popular. Oracle's consumer experienced is ten times better: https://www.java.com/en/ https://www.java.com/en/

dragonwriter 7y ago
> That's not a website aimed at consumers though. Java isn't aimed at consumers, either.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  So developers are writing Java Runtime software that nobody is running at all?
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    There's a reason B2B is distinguished from B2C.
  - javagram 7y ago
    Oracle recommends developers pack a JRE with their individual applications now. No need for users to install a JRE or even know they’re using a java application.
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      Wouldn't users still need a license to run Oracle's JRE?
      - javagram 7y ago
        They don’t need to use oracle JRE. Oracle has fully open-sourced the JRE under GPL (unlike Sun). If an app developer wants to use a version of the JDK other than that freely supplied by Oracle at https://openjdk.java.net/ https://openjdk.java.net/ , they can distribute AdoptOpenJDK, Apache Corretto, or any of the many other openjdk distributions.
taftster 7y ago
There is admittedly some baked-in expectation that you understand or have background for the nuances of Java 8, 11, 12 or Hotspot, OpenJ9. The website currently expects you to understand these differences. Good feedback, noted. But honestly, the website itself is not hard to understand. It gives you a choice of three JDK versions (8, 11, 12) which are all supported versions. And it gives you two choices for JVM (Hotspot, OpenJ9). And of course, you need to pick your platform. If you're coming brand new to the Java world, this is most definitely a cumbersome landing page. But for most people already in the Java world, these questions are quite relevant and appropriate. And the default choice (Java 8 + Hotspot) are quite sensible for most newcomers. Oracle's java.com website doesn't really give you the developer experience needed for Java. That's more focused on delivering the end-user JRE, not the developer JDK.

toyg 7y ago

To be brutal, they want exactly that. “All dem troublesome hack3rZ and early adopters” should go play with openjdk, and leave Oracle free to deal only with Big Boys who want Serious Support Contracts for Big Apps that will probably move to Java11 in 5 years’ time (if ever). Oracle is trading (some) control on the ecosystem and tech, for commercial opportunities to monetize the existing userbase. It doesn’t matter to them if 90% of people move to OpenJDK, as long as the remaining 10% (and lower development costs) nets them more money than they make at the moment.