6 ms·

Good to see, at the end of the article, that there are people thinking about different voltages and more sophisticated systems for transforming voltages. Now t

Good to see, at the end of the article, that there are people thinking about different voltages and more sophisticated systems for transforming voltages. Now that so many devices are capable of running at quite low power it might be worth using USB-C alongside the usual power outlets for more than just computers.

pjc50 7y ago
5V USB transformers embedded in sockets have definitely started appearing in the UK; I have some myself and they're convenient. If we were to embed anything new in the walls I think it ought to be Ethernet, then make people use PoE.
- yardstick 7y ago
  Ethernet PoE is nice, but USB-C I can see as the future for most power requirements both because it can carry a lot of power and it has a small form factor (Ethernet is too bulky for more and more products these days). The biggest issue with USB-C is unfortunately the zoo of different options. Not all USB-C cables and ports support high power output and it’s not trivial to figure out what cable or port to use. So much for universal...
  - wil421 7y ago
    USB C cables are extremely expensive compared to Cat6 there’s no comparison. 802.3af can run 48v for 100m I doubt USB C can run that far. Power delivery is a non-issue most devices can handle POE just fine and I have 3 Cameras, 2 APs, a switch, and a Pi all running off a single 150w UniFi switch. If you need more power you can always build another regular outlet much cheaper than setting up USB C.
    - zaarn 7y ago
      If you solder a 802.4af to a USB C socket you can get the same distance at the same voltage. USB C no longer has a specified maximum length, the only requirement is that the signal makes it across.
      - wil421 7y ago
        Can you even buy a splicer that will put on USB C ends? Doesn’t any cable just required the signal to be enough? I mean you could put Poe injectors or signal amplifiers for coax every X meters.
        zaarn 7y ago
        Not quite, the cable needs to be suitable for differential signaling and it has some tight inductance and RF property requirements, otherwise the wire just leaks all over the spectrum and doesn't work.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    USB-C cable length is an issue: https://community.cypress.com/docs/DOC-10693 https://community.cypress.com/docs/DOC-10693 I suggested Ethernet because the data carrying capacity remains valuable, compared to congested wireless bands. Adapters exist but seem currently very expensive: https://www.amazon.co.uk/GAT-USBC-802-3at-Wifi-Splitter-Ethernet/dp/B07GDQR78M https://www.amazon.co.uk/GAT-USBC-802-3at-Wifi-Splitter-Ethe...
  - missjellyfish 7y ago
    You obviously have never thought about the use of PoE. You just cannot compare PoE and USB-C Power delivery as these are made for entirely different applications. I'd rather buy a WiFi router that gets its power over the ethernet cable that I have to run to the location I'm putting it anyways rather than place a USB-C outlet next to it so I can power it via USB-C. Same goes for small switches and other network enabled equipment, especially IoT stuff (if it's wired). Also, having one beefy PoE enabled switch in the basement providing power is much more efficient than having a bunch of small transformators around the building. Now, charging Laptops on the other hand is a completely different story.
    - masklinn 7y ago
      > You obviously have never thought about the use of PoE. You just cannot compare PoE and USB-C Power delivery as these are made for entirely different applications. They're replying to a very specific comment: > If we were to embed anything new in the walls I think it ought to be Ethernet, then make people use PoE. and they're noting that providing ubiquitous USB-PD seems more useful and practical than providing ubiquitous PoE. "Wired-network" devices keep getting rarer, and new devices are significantly more likely to be powered over USB than ethernet if they're using any sort of standard power supply.
      - yardstick 7y ago
        Yes exactly this. I’m also thinking outside of computer equipment. Clocks, TVs, Lamps, Fans, chargers for vacuum cleaners, blenders, mixers, dehumidifiers, heaters, microwaves, fridges, speakers, etc anything you can plug into a typical home power point today. I realise it’s not going to happen for a few reasons but to me the ideal of a single socket type that works around the world without special adapters would be an amazing achievement. We’re already seeing this partially when it comes to computing devices and USB, but would love to see a USB standard that could support all other kinds of typical home and office power requirements. Something I hope the designers of the next USB standard are also interested in.
zzzcpan 7y ago
Not really, just like it's not worth it having any power supply embedded into a power outlet. It's also a bit dangerous, it can malfunction and burn your place to the ground without triggering circuit breakers. Also USB-C power in particular is pretty inefficient by design, as having say a 150 watt power supply to efficiently deliver 5 watts of power is rather complex and expensive to achieve.
- mikeash 7y ago
  What makes the risk of malfunction higher compared to a standard power supply plugged into an outlet?
  - zzzcpan 7y ago
    No airflow for cooling.
  - tomatocracy 7y ago
    As sibling says, no cooling but also no easy way to disconnect the supply eg if it gets hot or starts smoking or sparking.

pjc50 7y ago

5V USB transformers embedded in sockets have definitely started appearing in the UK; I have some myself and they're convenient. If we were to embed anything new in the walls I think it ought to be Ethernet, then make people use PoE.

yardstick 7y ago
Ethernet PoE is nice, but USB-C I can see as the future for most power requirements both because it can carry a lot of power and it has a small form factor (Ethernet is too bulky for more and more products these days). The biggest issue with USB-C is unfortunately the zoo of different options. Not all USB-C cables and ports support high power output and it’s not trivial to figure out what cable or port to use. So much for universal...
- wil421 7y ago
  USB C cables are extremely expensive compared to Cat6 there’s no comparison. 802.3af can run 48v for 100m I doubt USB C can run that far. Power delivery is a non-issue most devices can handle POE just fine and I have 3 Cameras, 2 APs, a switch, and a Pi all running off a single 150w UniFi switch. If you need more power you can always build another regular outlet much cheaper than setting up USB C.
  - zaarn 7y ago
    If you solder a 802.4af to a USB C socket you can get the same distance at the same voltage. USB C no longer has a specified maximum length, the only requirement is that the signal makes it across.
    - wil421 7y ago
      Can you even buy a splicer that will put on USB C ends? Doesn’t any cable just required the signal to be enough? I mean you could put Poe injectors or signal amplifiers for coax every X meters.
      - zaarn 7y ago
        Not quite, the cable needs to be suitable for differential signaling and it has some tight inductance and RF property requirements, otherwise the wire just leaks all over the spectrum and doesn't work.
- pjc50 7y ago
  USB-C cable length is an issue: https://community.cypress.com/docs/DOC-10693 https://community.cypress.com/docs/DOC-10693 I suggested Ethernet because the data carrying capacity remains valuable, compared to congested wireless bands. Adapters exist but seem currently very expensive: https://www.amazon.co.uk/GAT-USBC-802-3at-Wifi-Splitter-Ethernet/dp/B07GDQR78M https://www.amazon.co.uk/GAT-USBC-802-3at-Wifi-Splitter-Ethe...
- missjellyfish 7y ago
  You obviously have never thought about the use of PoE. You just cannot compare PoE and USB-C Power delivery as these are made for entirely different applications. I'd rather buy a WiFi router that gets its power over the ethernet cable that I have to run to the location I'm putting it anyways rather than place a USB-C outlet next to it so I can power it via USB-C. Same goes for small switches and other network enabled equipment, especially IoT stuff (if it's wired). Also, having one beefy PoE enabled switch in the basement providing power is much more efficient than having a bunch of small transformators around the building. Now, charging Laptops on the other hand is a completely different story.
  - masklinn 7y ago
    > You obviously have never thought about the use of PoE. You just cannot compare PoE and USB-C Power delivery as these are made for entirely different applications. They're replying to a very specific comment: > If we were to embed anything new in the walls I think it ought to be Ethernet, then make people use PoE. and they're noting that providing ubiquitous USB-PD seems more useful and practical than providing ubiquitous PoE. "Wired-network" devices keep getting rarer, and new devices are significantly more likely to be powered over USB than ethernet if they're using any sort of standard power supply.
    - yardstick 7y ago
      Yes exactly this. I’m also thinking outside of computer equipment. Clocks, TVs, Lamps, Fans, chargers for vacuum cleaners, blenders, mixers, dehumidifiers, heaters, microwaves, fridges, speakers, etc anything you can plug into a typical home power point today. I realise it’s not going to happen for a few reasons but to me the ideal of a single socket type that works around the world without special adapters would be an amazing achievement. We’re already seeing this partially when it comes to computing devices and USB, but would love to see a USB standard that could support all other kinds of typical home and office power requirements. Something I hope the designers of the next USB standard are also interested in.

zzzcpan 7y ago

Not really, just like it's not worth it having any power supply embedded into a power outlet. It's also a bit dangerous, it can malfunction and burn your place to the ground without triggering circuit breakers. Also USB-C power in particular is pretty inefficient by design, as having say a 150 watt power supply to efficiently deliver 5 watts of power is rather complex and expensive to achieve.

mikeash 7y ago
What makes the risk of malfunction higher compared to a standard power supply plugged into an outlet?
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  No airflow for cooling.
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  As sibling says, no cooling but also no easy way to disconnect the supply eg if it gets hot or starts smoking or sparking.