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Buddhism has an explanation for why these thoughts are soothing. It comes down to thinking provides a level of control and an appearance of a illusion you feel

by l8mr4 7y ago

Buddhism has an explanation for why these thoughts are soothing. It comes down to thinking provides a level of control and an appearance of a illusion you feel in control of. But alas this is illusion. The mind simply likes thinking. In fact Buddhists off camera will say your addicted to thinking. I believe this will be shown to be true. The default mode network may be the “addiction to thinking.”

gerbilly 7y ago
I haven't ever heard of the explanation you offer for why thoughts are helpful (having the appearance of control over an apparent illusion?). Thinking is required in buddhist practise, it's just not thinking about anything you please. Also, one usually deals with the coarser forms of suffering first, and no special esoteric philosophies and techniques are needed to address them, usually just clear thinking and problem solving is required.
- Annatar 7y ago
  "having the appearance of control over an apparent illusion?" Just before Ninakawa passed away the Zen master Ikkyu visited him. “Shall I lead you on?” Ikkyu asked. Ninakawa replied: “I came here alone and I go alone. What help could you be to me?” Ikkyu answered: “If you think you really come and go, that is your delusion. Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and going.”
  - gerbilly 7y ago
    I get what is being referred to, but if you are implying that buddhism teaches everything is an illusion, the Buddha himself specifically warned his followers away from nihilism and solipsism. Your everyday conventional wisdom is not negated by buddhism. For example, buddhist people use the word 'I' all the time ("Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and going."), despite trying to realise the doctrine of 'no self" in their practise. The doctrines attempt to eliminate suffering, proceeding from the coarsest levels down to more and more subtle forms of suffering. The delusion the monk is suffering from here, can only become uncovered after much work has been done clearing the way first.
    - emptysongglass 7y ago
      This Zen parable is faulty wisdom (like so much of Mahayana and Vajrayana fanfiction). The title the Buddha used to refer to himself, Tathagata, can simultaneously be translated as, "Thus Comes One" and "Thus Goes One". It's not about a path where there is no coming and going, it's about both simultaneously.
      - mistrial9 7y ago
        great truths are paradox -- both true and not true, at once
        gerbilly 7y ago
        You are talking about 'dialectical statements' statements that contain an apparent contradiction. They are not true and false at the same time, they are only commonly understood to be a contradiction, and the point of the koan or statement is to push the practitioner to is to see through the apparent contradictions. Koans and Zen stories are a training aid, but are not a substitute for common sense. Usually the contradiction occurs because the opposing statements come from different levels of analysis (the conventional: "I am going to 7/11 to get a drink.) the ultimate (I am just an unfolding process dependent on conditions that changes from one second to another, so in a way there is no I that goes to 7/11 ...). The thing is, even though 'ultimate' sounds more awesome, buddhists say "I" all the time. Just the same way that engineers use classical mechanics every day for certain classes of problems, because there's no need to bring in disappearing cats and quantum weirdness for that level of analysis. To every level of suffering, there are appropriate tools, but for some reason in the west, we often prefer to discuss complex subtle metaphysical statements we don't really understand¹, than to just go clean up the mess in the kitchen, which is a more pressing issue. The only reason I'm even engaging in this kind of talk is to discourage others from approaching buddhism that way. 1: Because they are meant to be experienced, not thought about. Full disclosure, I only know what I don't know, and I don't fully understand them either.
        emptysongglass 7y ago
- autogn0me 7y ago
  Thinking is required but knowing your thinking is the first step. We slip into thinking without knowing and that is the problem. How many hours does the depressed person wallow? Enjoying the trauma they control in their mind as they "future" the coming doom they will face or the regret of the past. There is nothing esoteric. Less than 100 hours of meditation can get you to this insight.
nx2059 7y ago
I think the solution might be somewhat simple, something I've noticed recently while trying to deal with my own stress. I recalled that as a child I would often do something very strange. I would just lay on the floor staring at the carpet, just completely mesmerized by the most banal of things. I'm mean there's less happening than watching paint dry. Or I would sit out in the yard in the fresh air and stare and some patch of dirt and grass for some period of time. I spoke to my girlfriend and she said that she recalled doing something similar. she said she had a very distinct memory of a door knob and just starting at it. I think maybe most children do this instinctively and forget it when they grow up. And rather than worry about complex esoteric philosophies just practicing a simple child like act for some time a day can help (and yes I know this is similar to practices known as grounding, but maybe more time is necessary to be devoted to it for it to restore inner calm)
dragonsngoblins 7y ago
Is it an illusion? Control of whether or not you are alive sounds very much like real control to me

by l8mr4 7y ago

gerbilly 7y ago

I haven't ever heard of the explanation you offer for why thoughts are helpful (having the appearance of control over an apparent illusion?). Thinking is required in buddhist practise, it's just not thinking about anything you please. Also, one usually deals with the coarser forms of suffering first, and no special esoteric philosophies and techniques are needed to address them, usually just clear thinking and problem solving is required.

Annatar 7y ago
"having the appearance of control over an apparent illusion?" Just before Ninakawa passed away the Zen master Ikkyu visited him. “Shall I lead you on?” Ikkyu asked. Ninakawa replied: “I came here alone and I go alone. What help could you be to me?” Ikkyu answered: “If you think you really come and go, that is your delusion. Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and going.”
- gerbilly 7y ago
  I get what is being referred to, but if you are implying that buddhism teaches everything is an illusion, the Buddha himself specifically warned his followers away from nihilism and solipsism. Your everyday conventional wisdom is not negated by buddhism. For example, buddhist people use the word 'I' all the time ("Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and going."), despite trying to realise the doctrine of 'no self" in their practise. The doctrines attempt to eliminate suffering, proceeding from the coarsest levels down to more and more subtle forms of suffering. The delusion the monk is suffering from here, can only become uncovered after much work has been done clearing the way first.
  - emptysongglass 7y ago
    This Zen parable is faulty wisdom (like so much of Mahayana and Vajrayana fanfiction). The title the Buddha used to refer to himself, Tathagata, can simultaneously be translated as, "Thus Comes One" and "Thus Goes One". It's not about a path where there is no coming and going, it's about both simultaneously.
    - mistrial9 7y ago
      great truths are paradox -- both true and not true, at once
      - gerbilly 7y ago
        You are talking about 'dialectical statements' statements that contain an apparent contradiction. They are not true and false at the same time, they are only commonly understood to be a contradiction, and the point of the koan or statement is to push the practitioner to is to see through the apparent contradictions. Koans and Zen stories are a training aid, but are not a substitute for common sense. Usually the contradiction occurs because the opposing statements come from different levels of analysis (the conventional: "I am going to 7/11 to get a drink.) the ultimate (I am just an unfolding process dependent on conditions that changes from one second to another, so in a way there is no I that goes to 7/11 ...). The thing is, even though 'ultimate' sounds more awesome, buddhists say "I" all the time. Just the same way that engineers use classical mechanics every day for certain classes of problems, because there's no need to bring in disappearing cats and quantum weirdness for that level of analysis. To every level of suffering, there are appropriate tools, but for some reason in the west, we often prefer to discuss complex subtle metaphysical statements we don't really understand¹, than to just go clean up the mess in the kitchen, which is a more pressing issue. The only reason I'm even engaging in this kind of talk is to discourage others from approaching buddhism that way. 1: Because they are meant to be experienced, not thought about. Full disclosure, I only know what I don't know, and I don't fully understand them either.
        emptysongglass 7y ago
autogn0me 7y ago
Thinking is required but knowing your thinking is the first step. We slip into thinking without knowing and that is the problem. How many hours does the depressed person wallow? Enjoying the trauma they control in their mind as they "future" the coming doom they will face or the regret of the past. There is nothing esoteric. Less than 100 hours of meditation can get you to this insight.

nx2059 7y ago

I think the solution might be somewhat simple, something I've noticed recently while trying to deal with my own stress. I recalled that as a child I would often do something very strange. I would just lay on the floor staring at the carpet, just completely mesmerized by the most banal of things. I'm mean there's less happening than watching paint dry. Or I would sit out in the yard in the fresh air and stare and some patch of dirt and grass for some period of time. I spoke to my girlfriend and she said that she recalled doing something similar. she said she had a very distinct memory of a door knob and just starting at it. I think maybe most children do this instinctively and forget it when they grow up. And rather than worry about complex esoteric philosophies just practicing a simple child like act for some time a day can help (and yes I know this is similar to practices known as grounding, but maybe more time is necessary to be devoted to it for it to restore inner calm)

dragonsngoblins 7y ago

Is it an illusion? Control of whether or not you are alive sounds very much like real control to me