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Nuget.Config, package-lock.json, package.json, webpack.config.js, yarn.lock, spreadsheet.fsproj, mentions to Fable and Elmish, Visual Studio, C#, Microsoft .NET

by slx26 7y ago

Nuget.Config, package-lock.json, package.json, webpack.config.js, yarn.lock, spreadsheet.fsproj, mentions to Fable and Elmish, Visual Studio, C#, Microsoft .NET, Javascript, and a 200 lines .gitignore file, pretty well formatted. You might argue that if I tried to become an F# developer I would get to know most of those on days one and two, and I wouldn't have to worry about many of them as they are just auto-generated or whatever. And I would agree. But those are the files that exist on the repository and that the developer needed to make this project work, despite making a "toy project". And they are there for a reason, and are related to other, way more complex pieces of software. Not like there's anything inherently wrong with it, but that's the "hidden" knowledge and complexity I was commenting about. Not something that's particular to F#, though.

yawaramin 7y ago
> Not something that's particular to F#, though. So what's the point of the comment? You could make this exact same comment almost any time someone posts any cool project they made. 'Look at all the dependencies! Project tooling, IDE, runtime platform, version control, libraries.' It doesn't add anything useful to the discussion about a specific project.
- slx26 7y ago
  Please reread my original comment. I'll try to summarize: my point is not about a specific project, but rather that sometimes we talk about / sell something as being easy, short or simple without accounting for all the things you said: project tooling, IDE, version control, etc., while all that is indeed part of the software complexity. I was just pointing out that in some cases we may be obviating that too much. Yes, I could have written this in any other project that made remarks about some code being simple or easy when (imo) it's not. I never criticised tooling, libraries, etc, themselves, I even made that explicit a couple times, and it's true I've said that it might happen in all languages. That still doesn't mean it's equally bad in all languages, or that it can't be improved, etc. I wasn't trying to start a discussion about this, it just happened. It was just a thought that I transcribed as a comment, in case it gave something to think about to someone.
  - yawaramin 7y ago
    > sometimes we talk about / sell something as being easy, short or simple without accounting for ... software complexity. Software complexity exists, yes. But in your original comment, you did say: 'the code is actually simple and short, the logic is easy to follow...' I think the fact that modern software is built on a complex base shouldn't take away from when it accomplishes something in a simple, elegant way. Abstractions are after all the key enabler of software systems. Criticizing them and the complexity they sit on top of, seems like missing the point.

by slx26 7y ago

yawaramin 7y ago

> Not something that's particular to F#, though. So what's the point of the comment? You could make this exact same comment almost any time someone posts any cool project they made. 'Look at all the dependencies! Project tooling, IDE, runtime platform, version control, libraries.' It doesn't add anything useful to the discussion about a specific project.

slx26 7y ago
Please reread my original comment. I'll try to summarize: my point is not about a specific project, but rather that sometimes we talk about / sell something as being easy, short or simple without accounting for all the things you said: project tooling, IDE, version control, etc., while all that is indeed part of the software complexity. I was just pointing out that in some cases we may be obviating that too much. Yes, I could have written this in any other project that made remarks about some code being simple or easy when (imo) it's not. I never criticised tooling, libraries, etc, themselves, I even made that explicit a couple times, and it's true I've said that it might happen in all languages. That still doesn't mean it's equally bad in all languages, or that it can't be improved, etc. I wasn't trying to start a discussion about this, it just happened. It was just a thought that I transcribed as a comment, in case it gave something to think about to someone.
- yawaramin 7y ago
  > sometimes we talk about / sell something as being easy, short or simple without accounting for ... software complexity. Software complexity exists, yes. But in your original comment, you did say: 'the code is actually simple and short, the logic is easy to follow...' I think the fact that modern software is built on a complex base shouldn't take away from when it accomplishes something in a simple, elegant way. Abstractions are after all the key enabler of software systems. Criticizing them and the complexity they sit on top of, seems like missing the point.