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There's a guy at the office who has to tinker and customise everything. He can't use anything that touts itself as opinionated because he has his own opinions.

There's a guy at the office who has to tinker and customise everything. He can't use anything that touts itself as opinionated because he has his own opinions. Kind of reminds me of this article. You say you're more productive but honestly: how much time have you spent working on and customising your OS and is it a continuous project? Can you really say you're more productive than the people who open their lid and just work?

drobati 7y ago
You can if the people who are just working do manual steps that I do in one step. I write TONS of bash functions that end up automating everything my peers do manually.
- ianai 7y ago
  Bash scripts are definitely needed. It’s not optimum to atrophy over time and have to rely on those scripts though. I have coworkers who want to turn seemingly any useful combination of posix commands into a script. I’m not sold on that being the best use of time.
ianai 7y ago
I definitely believe in knowing the most about your tools - regardless of profession. I’m less sure on where this line sits for OS choice. There are or at least were professionals who really needed Mac OS to get their work done properly along with the Adobe suite. Giving them Linux and OSS alternatives would almost certainly hinder them too greatly. But being able to hop onto just about any box and quickly get whatever done is itself a demonstration of broad knowledge.
- asdff 7y ago
  You absolutely should know your tools so you can actually trace problems and troubleshoot by yourself, which saves you time from researching and finding expert opinion. This is the exact reason why I don't use linux. I know my tools pretty well (macOS and bash), and I can troubleshoot my own problems. But there are always going to be exceptions, new problems will arise that will slow you down. That's another reason why I'm on a mainstream OS and not linux, because when I do encounter a problem that slows me down, devs work at breakneck speed to fix bugs and there is extensive documentation because the community is much larger than the linux community. I'd be spending waaay too much time in the weeds on ubuntu, sifting through pages of SEO crap search results to find the one sage forum post from 10 years ago with now deleted screenshots, just trying to run the software and workflows I know like the back of my hand on macos. I don't want to start over and be a dumbass again, I've found my niche.
  - gricjeh 7y ago
    Check out the Arch Wiki. Mind you: I am not saying use Arch necessarily. But the wiki is fantastic documentation for Linux. Sure, it’s one thing to compare knowledge that you already have. But does macOS even have a counterpart to the Arch Wiki for those starting out?
agumonkey 7y ago
It's a good point, it can be true, if done well. You have to have an abstract/productive view on tinkering. Not just bike shedding.. otherwise yeah it's just constant costs. ps: one talk that I find a pretty strong example is "the unix chainsaw" by Gary Bernhardt (of wat js fame). He shows how to using tools `against` themselves, as data, to help your work. It's not rocket science, but it's 1) something I rarely do truly 2) easy to fall back as tools as silos instead of .. `objects` collaborating.
dejawu 7y ago
Shortly after I graduated from college, I switched from Arch to Ubuntu and it was a bigger step in growing up than getting my actual diploma
- bhaak 7y ago
  And how often do you draw on skills you learned on Arch that you wouldn't have learned on Ubuntu?
  - Tehchops 7y ago
    Arch Linux teaches skills like: - Knowing what happens if I have the audacity to update my computer without reading 3 different forum threads - Understanding how to fix hilariously bad font rendering issues in a terminal, a software paradigm that's almost as old as computers themselves - Tempering expectations that incredibly obscure apps like "Spotify" will "just work". I think to imply Arch teaches much beyond the skills needed to deal with Arch Linux is a tenuous premise at best.
    - dejawu 7y ago
      Contrary to the popular belief that Linux has no games, Arch includes many fun games such as "find out why the audio decided to stop working today for no reason"
    - glitchcrab 7y ago
      I use Spotify for hours every day and I've had absolutely zero issues with it since I moved to Arch 3 or so years ago. Agreed on the fonts, that has always been a pain. That being said, I recently installed Arch on a new laptop and the fonts weren't too bad out of the box - times change. I update at least twice a week and I've only had one breakage in 3 years - I didn't update a config file with some new settings. All in all, your response comes across a little FUDdy IMO.
      - mellett68 7y ago
        My experience of Arch is that it's fun as a home computer tinkering exercise but I don't trust it for my work computer since I can't resist a version number bump and the amount of time spent faffing around would be a nightmare.
zarkov99 7y ago
This is something I sometimes also ponder. I think the answer is yes, as long as you keep your ultimate business goal in mind and optimize for workflow rather than looks. Yes, you do take longer to get going but once your setup is honed in you gain a little more time every minute you use your system.
danShumway 7y ago
You have to be smart about what you tinker with: 1. Do you know what the end state is, and do you know that you'll be significantly more productive? If so, then spend some real time on it. 2. Do you not know what the end state is, OR are you not sure what the best setup is? If so, then do the absolute minimum amount of work to make your changes functional and no more. Then use the incomplete setup for a while and see how it feels. 3. Are you not sure of the end state, AND are you not sure it will make you more productive? Then put it off and keep using your current setup, or at most try it out on a separate computer in your free time. It's not unlike working on software architecture. You can get so focused on good architecture and clean code that you never get any real work done. Some code is fine to leave ugly. But not all code -- the art is knowing when code actually needs to be refactored, and figuring out how to refactor it in a way that doesn't lock you out of developing new features for a month. Environment customization is the same way.
bhaak 7y ago
> Can you really say you're more productive than the people who open their lid and just work? I don't know if overall all the tinkering I've done over the years was a net positive in terms of efficient use of working hours. But I can for sure tell you that if I've just opened my lid and worked, I would have been much less satisfied while working when I would constantly run into unnecessary limitations of my tools. Hard to put a quantifier on work satisfaction. As a professional, using the right tools for your job should be part of your job. You wouldn't trust a workman hammering a nail into the wall with a screwdriver just because that's the only tool in his tool belt. And this isn't even an exaggerated metaphor. For decades Windows was unusable OOTB for any serious development. OSX is still handicapped by a decades old userspace (better than nothing but not good).
clktmr 7y ago
I'm using a very similar desktop environment (mainly i3 + terminal + vim). What I really like about this setup is that it's compatible with every project I work on. I rearely have to learn new tools and I honestly did before spent more time getting used to new IDEs and stuff than configuring my current work environment. Configuring it is an ongoing project, but I commit changes to my dotfiles, so it's no lost time.
fauigerzigerk 7y ago
I see customisation as a form of optimisation. Optimising tasks that you perform hundereds of times a day will make you more productive. Optimising everything is a waste of time.
late 7y ago
That’s a good question. Then again, it seems that for some people tinkering serves more as a hobby that they just like doing. By tinkering and customizing you might gain a productive work environment but the way I see it is that some people just want to tinker because it makes them happy. The ’increased productivity’ seems to be more of a way to rationalize it to oneself.
segmondy 7y ago
It's a start, hopefully they will discover .bashrc, dotfiles and the power of CLI
minitech 7y ago
> Can you really say you're more productive than the people who open their lid and just work? - I do open a laptop and just work. Using configuration that I’ve already created to suit my work. - Other people is a big group, and one that doesn’t matter so much here. I’m more productive using what I’ve opted to change than without. Yes, the minor time investment was worth it.
acomjean 7y ago
I loathe tinkering/ driver set up. I was using a MacBook, but when it came time to replace.. I bought a pre configured Linux computer (laptop). They’re not very common but common enough. I haven’t had to spend any time with setup, and frankly I’ve been pleased that everything just works. My main complaint it Battery life isn’t terrible but isn’t great but for what I do it’s good enough.
rpastuszak 7y ago
If tinkering/customising my OS was still my hobby, I wouldn’t consider it wasted time. Agreed, this doesn’t apply to everyone. Years ago, every 6 months I’d switch to Linux/hackintosh purely out of frustration (or envy) as OSX looked sooo much better than anything else (antialiasing!) AND supported Adobe CC. Nowadays I’m a Mac user and I’m unlikely to switch, because I’ve grown a bit tired of my tweaking marathons and need a proper *nix system. I wish Windows just became a GUI layer on top of Linux though.
zumu 7y ago
It's a multiplicative effect. Spend a few hours setting it up just right for your own workflow, and it tightens up your productivity going forward. It may not be by 30-40% as some people claim, but even at 1% that's around 20 hours in a year assuming a light schedule (40 hours a week 48 weeks a year).
arendtio 7y ago
Well, I think asking a Gentoo guy if the compile times are worth the performance boost is quite valid (I used Gentoo for several years). But just because you are using Linux, doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of time customizing. Actually, customizing can be a lot quicker on Linux than on Windows for example (due to the well-integrated package managers). That said, I do think that some customizations help with productivity, but you should know your limits. If you are trying something completely new, which nobody has done before, you are unlikely to find huge productivity boosts. But if you cautiously follow some best practices you might find some productivity treasures.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
trustyhank 7y ago
I have a couple shell scripts that bootstrap any debian machine to work as my dev machine. Probably less time than starting from scratch on a Mac.

drobati 7y ago

You can if the people who are just working do manual steps that I do in one step. I write TONS of bash functions that end up automating everything my peers do manually.

ianai 7y ago
Bash scripts are definitely needed. It’s not optimum to atrophy over time and have to rely on those scripts though. I have coworkers who want to turn seemingly any useful combination of posix commands into a script. I’m not sold on that being the best use of time.

ianai 7y ago

I definitely believe in knowing the most about your tools - regardless of profession. I’m less sure on where this line sits for OS choice. There are or at least were professionals who really needed Mac OS to get their work done properly along with the Adobe suite. Giving them Linux and OSS alternatives would almost certainly hinder them too greatly. But being able to hop onto just about any box and quickly get whatever done is itself a demonstration of broad knowledge.

asdff 7y ago
You absolutely should know your tools so you can actually trace problems and troubleshoot by yourself, which saves you time from researching and finding expert opinion. This is the exact reason why I don't use linux. I know my tools pretty well (macOS and bash), and I can troubleshoot my own problems. But there are always going to be exceptions, new problems will arise that will slow you down. That's another reason why I'm on a mainstream OS and not linux, because when I do encounter a problem that slows me down, devs work at breakneck speed to fix bugs and there is extensive documentation because the community is much larger than the linux community. I'd be spending waaay too much time in the weeds on ubuntu, sifting through pages of SEO crap search results to find the one sage forum post from 10 years ago with now deleted screenshots, just trying to run the software and workflows I know like the back of my hand on macos. I don't want to start over and be a dumbass again, I've found my niche.
- gricjeh 7y ago
  Check out the Arch Wiki. Mind you: I am not saying use Arch necessarily. But the wiki is fantastic documentation for Linux. Sure, it’s one thing to compare knowledge that you already have. But does macOS even have a counterpart to the Arch Wiki for those starting out?

agumonkey 7y ago

It's a good point, it can be true, if done well. You have to have an abstract/productive view on tinkering. Not just bike shedding.. otherwise yeah it's just constant costs. ps: one talk that I find a pretty strong example is "the unix chainsaw" by Gary Bernhardt (of wat js fame). He shows how to using tools `against` themselves, as data, to help your work. It's not rocket science, but it's 1) something I rarely do truly 2) easy to fall back as tools as silos instead of .. `objects` collaborating.

dejawu 7y ago

Shortly after I graduated from college, I switched from Arch to Ubuntu and it was a bigger step in growing up than getting my actual diploma

bhaak 7y ago
And how often do you draw on skills you learned on Arch that you wouldn't have learned on Ubuntu?
- Tehchops 7y ago
  Arch Linux teaches skills like: - Knowing what happens if I have the audacity to update my computer without reading 3 different forum threads - Understanding how to fix hilariously bad font rendering issues in a terminal, a software paradigm that's almost as old as computers themselves - Tempering expectations that incredibly obscure apps like "Spotify" will "just work". I think to imply Arch teaches much beyond the skills needed to deal with Arch Linux is a tenuous premise at best.
  - dejawu 7y ago
    Contrary to the popular belief that Linux has no games, Arch includes many fun games such as "find out why the audio decided to stop working today for no reason"
  - glitchcrab 7y ago
    I use Spotify for hours every day and I've had absolutely zero issues with it since I moved to Arch 3 or so years ago. Agreed on the fonts, that has always been a pain. That being said, I recently installed Arch on a new laptop and the fonts weren't too bad out of the box - times change. I update at least twice a week and I've only had one breakage in 3 years - I didn't update a config file with some new settings. All in all, your response comes across a little FUDdy IMO.
    - mellett68 7y ago
      My experience of Arch is that it's fun as a home computer tinkering exercise but I don't trust it for my work computer since I can't resist a version number bump and the amount of time spent faffing around would be a nightmare.

zarkov99 7y ago

This is something I sometimes also ponder. I think the answer is yes, as long as you keep your ultimate business goal in mind and optimize for workflow rather than looks. Yes, you do take longer to get going but once your setup is honed in you gain a little more time every minute you use your system.

danShumway 7y ago

You have to be smart about what you tinker with: 1. Do you know what the end state is, and do you know that you'll be significantly more productive? If so, then spend some real time on it. 2. Do you not know what the end state is, OR are you not sure what the best setup is? If so, then do the absolute minimum amount of work to make your changes functional and no more. Then use the incomplete setup for a while and see how it feels. 3. Are you not sure of the end state, AND are you not sure it will make you more productive? Then put it off and keep using your current setup, or at most try it out on a separate computer in your free time. It's not unlike working on software architecture. You can get so focused on good architecture and clean code that you never get any real work done. Some code is fine to leave ugly. But not all code -- the art is knowing when code actually needs to be refactored, and figuring out how to refactor it in a way that doesn't lock you out of developing new features for a month. Environment customization is the same way.

bhaak 7y ago

> Can you really say you're more productive than the people who open their lid and just work? I don't know if overall all the tinkering I've done over the years was a net positive in terms of efficient use of working hours. But I can for sure tell you that if I've just opened my lid and worked, I would have been much less satisfied while working when I would constantly run into unnecessary limitations of my tools. Hard to put a quantifier on work satisfaction. As a professional, using the right tools for your job should be part of your job. You wouldn't trust a workman hammering a nail into the wall with a screwdriver just because that's the only tool in his tool belt. And this isn't even an exaggerated metaphor. For decades Windows was unusable OOTB for any serious development. OSX is still handicapped by a decades old userspace (better than nothing but not good).

clktmr 7y ago

I'm using a very similar desktop environment (mainly i3 + terminal + vim). What I really like about this setup is that it's compatible with every project I work on. I rearely have to learn new tools and I honestly did before spent more time getting used to new IDEs and stuff than configuring my current work environment. Configuring it is an ongoing project, but I commit changes to my dotfiles, so it's no lost time.

fauigerzigerk 7y ago

I see customisation as a form of optimisation. Optimising tasks that you perform hundereds of times a day will make you more productive. Optimising everything is a waste of time.

late 7y ago

That’s a good question. Then again, it seems that for some people tinkering serves more as a hobby that they just like doing. By tinkering and customizing you might gain a productive work environment but the way I see it is that some people just want to tinker because it makes them happy. The ’increased productivity’ seems to be more of a way to rationalize it to oneself.

segmondy 7y ago

It's a start, hopefully they will discover .bashrc, dotfiles and the power of CLI

minitech 7y ago

> Can you really say you're more productive than the people who open their lid and just work? - I do open a laptop and just work. Using configuration that I’ve already created to suit my work. - Other people is a big group, and one that doesn’t matter so much here. I’m more productive using what I’ve opted to change than without. Yes, the minor time investment was worth it.

acomjean 7y ago

I loathe tinkering/ driver set up. I was using a MacBook, but when it came time to replace.. I bought a pre configured Linux computer (laptop). They’re not very common but common enough. I haven’t had to spend any time with setup, and frankly I’ve been pleased that everything just works. My main complaint it Battery life isn’t terrible but isn’t great but for what I do it’s good enough.

rpastuszak 7y ago

If tinkering/customising my OS was still my hobby, I wouldn’t consider it wasted time. Agreed, this doesn’t apply to everyone. Years ago, every 6 months I’d switch to Linux/hackintosh purely out of frustration (or envy) as OSX looked sooo much better than anything else (antialiasing!) AND supported Adobe CC. Nowadays I’m a Mac user and I’m unlikely to switch, because I’ve grown a bit tired of my tweaking marathons and need a proper *nix system. I wish Windows just became a GUI layer on top of Linux though.

zumu 7y ago

It's a multiplicative effect. Spend a few hours setting it up just right for your own workflow, and it tightens up your productivity going forward. It may not be by 30-40% as some people claim, but even at 1% that's around 20 hours in a year assuming a light schedule (40 hours a week 48 weeks a year).

arendtio 7y ago

Well, I think asking a Gentoo guy if the compile times are worth the performance boost is quite valid (I used Gentoo for several years). But just because you are using Linux, doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of time customizing. Actually, customizing can be a lot quicker on Linux than on Windows for example (due to the well-integrated package managers). That said, I do think that some customizations help with productivity, but you should know your limits. If you are trying something completely new, which nobody has done before, you are unlikely to find huge productivity boosts. But if you cautiously follow some best practices you might find some productivity treasures.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

trustyhank 7y ago

I have a couple shell scripts that bootstrap any debian machine to work as my dev machine. Probably less time than starting from scratch on a Mac.