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This is what the FIRE movement (Financial Independence and Retire Early) is all about. I would highly recommend the book "Your money or your life" by Vicki Robi

by 2sk21 7y ago

This is what the FIRE movement (Financial Independence and Retire Early) is all about. I would highly recommend the book "Your money or your life" by Vicki Robin. The best approach to switching to more meaningful work is to start by getting your financial life in order. I speak with personal experience: I realized earlier this year that I did not need to feel stuck in a dead-end job and this gave me the courage to quit.

fouc 7y ago
I also highly recommend "Early Retirement Extreme: A Philosophical and Practical Guide to Financial Independence" by Jacob Lund Fisker.
- sifar 7y ago
  I also recommend ERE too. It is really a distillation of the FI philosophy. Very good to have in your mental toolbox. The discussion about increasing the savings rate was really illuminating.Some might be put off by the "Extreme" part and the occasional tendency to go to great lengths to save costs, but that should taken as being tailored to oneself. The forum is also a nice place for lot of interesting discussion with good people.
hos234 7y ago
The Fire movement is pretty harmful imho. I think it benefits the authors and podcasters much more than it helps actual people. It probably works for very specific personality types. And really shouldn't be sold to anyone and everyone. I have friends in their 40s who retired early. And most of them are loosing their minds. It's sad and frustrating to watch. They have nothing much to focus on daily, and after a few years of it, you can see the cognitive decline compared to the rest of the peer group. Their people skills keep degenerating, from lack of constant challenges that the middle aged adult deals with at work or home. And that mounts over time, making lot of things harder and harder. I get all the frustrations people (rightly) have with institutions, govt and corporate robot wonderland, but I have done more interesting and personally satisfying things being within those structures, than I have done anything outside them. Financial independence is not just an emergency eject button when faced with difficult choices. It a big asset in the corporate world while competing with a cohort that is deep in debt (alimony/kids college/health expense/mortgages/golf club membership etc etc). Sooner or later everyone in any org knows who can be bought and who can't. Both kind of people have value to the org and impact on the org. People who misunderstand that, end up pushing the eject button prematurely.
- s_Hogg 7y ago
  Exactly. Another example of the same thing: how quickly did your parents go bonkers after the last of your siblings moved out? Now make this happen like 30 years early. There's a lot to be said for having a job but not needing it. It gives you the chance to look up from just waiting for payday and view your position in your org in much greater detail, because you can afford to take a few chances.
  - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
    I dunno, my parents did not go bonkers after we all moved out. They turned into much nicer people. Adults I could actually talk to 1:1
    - gilbetron 7y ago
      While I agree with the point that parents can absolutely be happy/happier when their kids move out, them being adults you could talk to after you moved out probably has more to do with you maturing rather than them ;) Or, more nuanced, everyone involved was able to develop and chill out!
      - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
        As a parent I can see that a lot of conflict with children has to do with them being (or us seeing them as) something we have to steer and prod in the right direction. And a lot of resent (also reward) is created by having them in your space constantly messing things up or putting demands on your life. When your kids are taking care of themselves, and living as autonomous adults... the relationship changes. As an adult, I moved back in with my parents for a few months in university, prior to moving out to Toronto. At first it was fine but within a few months the same old conflict with my father came back. Being in 'his' space made it hard to be friends.
- war1025 7y ago
  Looks like in your last paragraph you came around to what I was going to say. I find that focusing on the FI half is pretty satisfying. I'm not there yet, and I don't know what will happen when I get there, but I do know that I have a heck of a lot more savings than most of my peers, and it leads to me being a lot more relaxed at work when things start to get stressful (Or maybe I am just more relaxed by nature). To me, it really comes down to the NN Taleb version of FIRE which is "Fuck You" money.
bigred100 7y ago
I believe the internet goes to big extremes. I only want to read a newsletter from the “be a bit more prudent and save some more and then retire at the normal time with a reasonable expectation that you won’t run out of money” movement.
- ghaff 7y ago
  Measured advice does not a cult following make :-) Personally I agree with you. Financial prudence doesn't need to equate with freaking out at the thought of having a restaurant meal with friends. Nor does having certain organizational routines mean buying into some complete time management "system." I do think some people feel they need the structure of systems that are at least in principle pretty absolutist though.

by 2sk21 7y ago

fouc 7y ago

I also highly recommend "Early Retirement Extreme: A Philosophical and Practical Guide to Financial Independence" by Jacob Lund Fisker.

sifar 7y ago
I also recommend ERE too. It is really a distillation of the FI philosophy. Very good to have in your mental toolbox. The discussion about increasing the savings rate was really illuminating.Some might be put off by the "Extreme" part and the occasional tendency to go to great lengths to save costs, but that should taken as being tailored to oneself. The forum is also a nice place for lot of interesting discussion with good people.

hos234 7y ago

The Fire movement is pretty harmful imho. I think it benefits the authors and podcasters much more than it helps actual people. It probably works for very specific personality types. And really shouldn't be sold to anyone and everyone. I have friends in their 40s who retired early. And most of them are loosing their minds. It's sad and frustrating to watch. They have nothing much to focus on daily, and after a few years of it, you can see the cognitive decline compared to the rest of the peer group. Their people skills keep degenerating, from lack of constant challenges that the middle aged adult deals with at work or home. And that mounts over time, making lot of things harder and harder. I get all the frustrations people (rightly) have with institutions, govt and corporate robot wonderland, but I have done more interesting and personally satisfying things being within those structures, than I have done anything outside them. Financial independence is not just an emergency eject button when faced with difficult choices. It a big asset in the corporate world while competing with a cohort that is deep in debt (alimony/kids college/health expense/mortgages/golf club membership etc etc). Sooner or later everyone in any org knows who can be bought and who can't. Both kind of people have value to the org and impact on the org. People who misunderstand that, end up pushing the eject button prematurely.

s_Hogg 7y ago
Exactly. Another example of the same thing: how quickly did your parents go bonkers after the last of your siblings moved out? Now make this happen like 30 years early. There's a lot to be said for having a job but not needing it. It gives you the chance to look up from just waiting for payday and view your position in your org in much greater detail, because you can afford to take a few chances.
- cmrdporcupine 7y ago
  I dunno, my parents did not go bonkers after we all moved out. They turned into much nicer people. Adults I could actually talk to 1:1
  - gilbetron 7y ago
    While I agree with the point that parents can absolutely be happy/happier when their kids move out, them being adults you could talk to after you moved out probably has more to do with you maturing rather than them ;) Or, more nuanced, everyone involved was able to develop and chill out!
    - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
      As a parent I can see that a lot of conflict with children has to do with them being (or us seeing them as) something we have to steer and prod in the right direction. And a lot of resent (also reward) is created by having them in your space constantly messing things up or putting demands on your life. When your kids are taking care of themselves, and living as autonomous adults... the relationship changes. As an adult, I moved back in with my parents for a few months in university, prior to moving out to Toronto. At first it was fine but within a few months the same old conflict with my father came back. Being in 'his' space made it hard to be friends.
war1025 7y ago
Looks like in your last paragraph you came around to what I was going to say. I find that focusing on the FI half is pretty satisfying. I'm not there yet, and I don't know what will happen when I get there, but I do know that I have a heck of a lot more savings than most of my peers, and it leads to me being a lot more relaxed at work when things start to get stressful (Or maybe I am just more relaxed by nature). To me, it really comes down to the NN Taleb version of FIRE which is "Fuck You" money.

bigred100 7y ago

I believe the internet goes to big extremes. I only want to read a newsletter from the “be a bit more prudent and save some more and then retire at the normal time with a reasonable expectation that you won’t run out of money” movement.

ghaff 7y ago
Measured advice does not a cult following make :-) Personally I agree with you. Financial prudence doesn't need to equate with freaking out at the thought of having a restaurant meal with friends. Nor does having certain organizational routines mean buying into some complete time management "system." I do think some people feel they need the structure of systems that are at least in principle pretty absolutist though.