3 ms·

Wasn’t dieselgate about companies rigging their software to trigger emissions control only during testing to meet NOx standards? And wasn’t dieselgate about try

Wasn’t dieselgate about companies rigging their software to trigger emissions control only during testing to meet NOx standards? And wasn’t dieselgate about trying to trick US standards rather than about European standards? The irony of your comment... Edit: I don’t know anything about the impact of the ADA on the choice of EVMs in the US, so I haven’t commented on it too much, but even ignoring how wrong your dieselgate comment is, your claim about ADA doesn’t pass the smell test for me because EVMs are (or were, until courts stopped them or countries realized how insecure they are) being adopted in large numbers in other countries, many of which don’t have the equivalent of ADA laws, and don’t particularly care about the disabled.

redis_mlc 7y ago
No irony, you just don't understand the complete picture. I wasn't offering my opinions, I was reporting on what the press had previously written. Most press on dieselgate was superficial, but there were a few articles that went deeper into why diesel and why mfgs. rigged exhaust tests. The actual origin of dieselgate was government regulations incentivizing diesel use in Europe for misguided emissions reasons. A related factor is that mfgs. can apply fuel economy improvements from one model to other models based on percentage. Regarding voting machines, city and state councils would not budget for new equipment without a good reason. That's why ADA seems like the most compelling reason from what I've read. Under "Voting Systems Standards" in the link below, an electronic system is required with multiple language support under ADA: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ252/pdf/PLAW-107publ252.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ252/pdf/PLAW...
- danso 7y ago
  > The actual origin of dieselgate was government regulations incentivizing diesel use... Dieselgate is about a specific scheme designed to bypass regulations. Your reductive reasoning makes as much sense as saying "it's superficial to think of Watergate as anything else but the byproduct of democratic elections"
rndgermandude 7y ago
>Wasn’t dieselgate about companies rigging their software to trigger emissions control only during testing to meet NOx standards? Essentially yes. >And wasn’t dieselgate about trying to trick US standards rather than about European standards? No, most likely not. The main motivation at the time they put these "devices" in place was to trick the European standards, the so called Euro 1 to Euro 6, and regulators. Of course it helped with the US/Californian standards too, but hardly the main concern. But the primary diesel market was (and still is) the EU, also with new diesel models introduced there first. E.g. in 2015 over half of all new passenger cars in Europe were diesel. At the same time the US diesel new passenger cars were about 3%. Diesel was incentivized by European governments in particular the German. What's more is that a lot of other countries outright adopted the Euro standards too, or based their local standards directly on the Euro standards, e.g. Israel, Turkey, Australia, India, and even China to a degree, to name a few. Getting e.g. an Euro 5 certification meant you not only were able to sell in the EU but a lot of those places too. Of course, it was US researchers and regulators who uncovered this fraud first (or at least the first who made it public and issued fines), kudos to them, so that's probably why there is a perception that this thing was about US and US standards. BTW, those "cheat devices" really aren't devices per see but ECU configuration data to instruct the ECU to limit the urea solution (AdBlue) use to likely test scenarios. And they started doing this cheat mainly because they fucked up their designs installing too small, tiny urea solution tanks (which often were hard to access) which would have required car owners to refill that tank really often.

redis_mlc 7y ago

No irony, you just don't understand the complete picture. I wasn't offering my opinions, I was reporting on what the press had previously written. Most press on dieselgate was superficial, but there were a few articles that went deeper into why diesel and why mfgs. rigged exhaust tests. The actual origin of dieselgate was government regulations incentivizing diesel use in Europe for misguided emissions reasons. A related factor is that mfgs. can apply fuel economy improvements from one model to other models based on percentage. Regarding voting machines, city and state councils would not budget for new equipment without a good reason. That's why ADA seems like the most compelling reason from what I've read. Under "Voting Systems Standards" in the link below, an electronic system is required with multiple language support under ADA: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ252/pdf/PLAW-107publ252.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ252/pdf/PLAW...

danso 7y ago
> The actual origin of dieselgate was government regulations incentivizing diesel use... Dieselgate is about a specific scheme designed to bypass regulations. Your reductive reasoning makes as much sense as saying "it's superficial to think of Watergate as anything else but the byproduct of democratic elections"

rndgermandude 7y ago

>Wasn’t dieselgate about companies rigging their software to trigger emissions control only during testing to meet NOx standards? Essentially yes. >And wasn’t dieselgate about trying to trick US standards rather than about European standards? No, most likely not. The main motivation at the time they put these "devices" in place was to trick the European standards, the so called Euro 1 to Euro 6, and regulators. Of course it helped with the US/Californian standards too, but hardly the main concern. But the primary diesel market was (and still is) the EU, also with new diesel models introduced there first. E.g. in 2015 over half of all new passenger cars in Europe were diesel. At the same time the US diesel new passenger cars were about 3%. Diesel was incentivized by European governments in particular the German. What's more is that a lot of other countries outright adopted the Euro standards too, or based their local standards directly on the Euro standards, e.g. Israel, Turkey, Australia, India, and even China to a degree, to name a few. Getting e.g. an Euro 5 certification meant you not only were able to sell in the EU but a lot of those places too. Of course, it was US researchers and regulators who uncovered this fraud first (or at least the first who made it public and issued fines), kudos to them, so that's probably why there is a perception that this thing was about US and US standards. BTW, those "cheat devices" really aren't devices per see but ECU configuration data to instruct the ECU to limit the urea solution (AdBlue) use to likely test scenarios. And they started doing this cheat mainly because they fucked up their designs installing too small, tiny urea solution tanks (which often were hard to access) which would have required car owners to refill that tank really often.