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> I refuse to provide phone verification as I believe it is Discord's fault for flagging my account... > I will be communicating with a couple communities with

> I refuse to provide phone verification as I believe it is Discord's fault for flagging my account... > I will be communicating with a couple communities with which I'm involved to explain that I am unable to use Discord Does this person not have a phone? 'Unable' seems like a stretch. If this person said, "I don't want to provide my phone number to Discord, so I'm going to stop using it" I'd understand. Their opening email also strikes a pretty aggressive tone -- calling Discord anal, insulting, "spit in my face" then goes on to make a number of demands of the company? I'm not super surprised the customer service rep on the other side didn't go out of their way to help.

chrisseaton 7y ago
I don't know any of the specifics of what's going on here, but phone verification is sometimes very tricky even for willing people, with a phone, and from western countries. I can't get a Lyft even when in the US because their verification system only works for US phone numbers and I have a British one!
lidHanteyk 7y ago
Discord's been an abusive member of the community for a long time. They distort nomenclature, mislead about their intentions, and aren't able to show that they protect personal information. As a light and funny example, Discord doesn't comply with the OpenSSL license.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  > Discord doesn't comply with the OpenSSL license. In what way? Have you reached out to Discord to make them aware? They seem fairly committed to open source from everything I've read.
  - lidHanteyk 7y ago
    The OpenSSL license for Discord's bundled versions of OpenSSL [0] has two conditions which are being violated. When they advertise the features of their client, or offer binaries of their client for download, they do not include the verbatim text, "This product includes software developed by the OpenSSL Project for use in the OpenSSL Toolkit. (http://www.openssl.org/)" http://www.openssl.org/)" They know that they are violating this license; they don't care. They are free to clean up their act at any time. [0] https://www.openssl.org/source/license-openssl-ssleay.txt https://www.openssl.org/source/license-openssl-ssleay.txt
    - ctrl-j 7y ago
      But that's not what the license says.. it says: * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * "This product includes cryptographic software written by * Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com)" I'm not a lawyer, but my interpretation of "this software" is OpenSSL, which wouldn't apply this clause to all advertising of discord features. It would be when they run advertisements that reference discord features that rely specifically on OpenSSL features. Which, isn't going to be that often, right? > They know that they are violating this license; they don't care. They are free to clean up their act at any time. Is this a known issue that's been brought up before? I've never heard of it, and would be interested to read up on it! I'm especially curious as to their response.
      - jhgg 7y ago
        We are not aware of non-compliance with the OpenSSL license. We attribute usage of OpenSSL in our licenses page (along with all the other OSS projects we use.) https://discordapp.com/licenses https://discordapp.com/licenses - reproducing the copyright notice as required by condition 2 of the license: > Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. As for condition 3, I am unable to locate any marketing materials which mention the usage of OpenSSL. However, if any such material exists that is in non-compliance we are very interested in ensuring that we are in compliance.
liability 7y ago
God forbid somebody spit some venom at a corporation they are otherwise powerless against.
esotericn 7y ago
Force is more aggressive than language. In that sense, bureaucracies are aggressive by default; that they use friendly language doesn't change this. Imagine that one day, your car locks you out, and there's a smiley face and it says "oh hey, just call this number dude". Is that any less aggressive simply because it's 'friendly'? Of course not. In many ways it's worse - because it's almost sarcastic (it's not _really_ that way, of course, because the customer support agent in this scenario is a robot, but it sure feels like it).
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  Yep, lots of people are stuck on the civility of words these days, and completely ignore the civility of actions and their consequences. People get mad and yelling about a war, absolutely unconscionable and should be disregarded and ignored, however thousands of people dying in said war, well at least nobody said bad words publicly about it, everyone was polite and civil when the decision that they should all die was made. Just because some automatic process has chosen to discriminate against you, for whatever reason (that mysteriously nobody ever seems to be able to disclose), doesn't make it any less of a hostile, uncivil act. But yet getting angry about it puts you in the wrong? Complete garbage.
  - runlevel1 7y ago
    I'm reminded of the hollow "thoughts and prayers" platitude.
fbcpck 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentiveness
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  Not at all, the author uses Tor to anonymize their location and probably system footprint. If you read the response the only "acceptable" phone number is a mobile phone. It de-anonymizes you because mobile providers hand out this sort of information for cash. The only reason for the phone number request, based on the requirements of what kind of phone numbers are acceptable (no VOIP, no landlines) is that they want to be know where this user is when ever they use the service, or how to locate them.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    > It de-anonymizes you because mobile providers hand out this sort of information for cash. No, the mere fact of the phone companies even having that information de-anonymizes you. Suppose someone doesn't like what you have to say, sues you, and subpoenas the phone company for your information - that they don't sell it won't save you. Or you say something that upsets the phone company, its parent company, or one of its subsidiaries. It launches an internal investigation, and finds you [1]. All without selling or even sharing your information. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-microsoft-tracked-down-a-spy-who-leaked-its-secrets/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-microsoft-tracked-down-a-s...
  - fbcpck 7y ago
    My comment was linking to a page explaining the term anal-retentiveness, which the parent poster clearly isn’t aware of, and is apparently flagged so no one can see it; what are you talking about?
wowaname 7y ago
Just a note: I do not ask to have my blog entries submitted to this site, precisely because the comments I receive here are very assumptuous and negative. I have had prior interactions with Discord which influenced the tone of my E-mail. My blog post is simply presented as-is and I really do not care what others have to say about it, but I have no control over what is submitted here. I just want people to keep this in mind should future posts of mine be submitted, before someone points out "hey, you got onto Hacker News again" and I have to be subjected to a bunch of people not getting the full picture (and even some people complaining how pink my site is... grow up).
- pschastain 7y ago
  Personally found the post interesting. I don't use Discord but I also refuse to give my number out for verification purposes - as you noted there are other ways to verify a users identity. Hopefully you don't get too much grief for being a female on the internet with an opinion :-/
  - wowaname 7y ago
    I don't capitalise on my sex/gender; I just prefer the use of neutral language when talking about anyone of unknown gender. In any case; I signed up for this when deciding to put my ideas online, and it has given me a chance to connect with a lot of nice people, despite also having to take the negative audiences along with it. I definitely am surprised that my blog attracts as much positive attention as it does; I never really wrote with the assumption that I'd have far reach. But, it's nice that others out there do care about some of the things I do. Currently Discord doesn't require a number if you use your home IP to connect, but that could change at a moment's notice with their opaque methods of operation. I've used Tor with Discord for months without any issue until recently. So, it's probably better not to start using it now than to take that risk and be upset when they do find a reason to demand your personal information.
- logicprog 7y ago
  If you're worried about the full context not being understood, maybe add the necessary details? It doesn't have to be every possible detail, but you seem to have a clear idea of what context is missing, judging by your comment. So why not add it? Also, if your blog isn't meant to be read by people that don't know the context of your life already, making it public seems like an odd choice, especially when you say things that might be taken the wrong way. Also. If you really didn't care about what others said about it, why are you responding to such comments and displaying indignation? Why are you here at all? And re: the blog being pink, do you really think it's because there's an "adults/men can't like pink" prejudice going around on this very liberal site? Or maybe it's because pink (unless done right) is like neon green: not a very aesthetic choice?
leftyted 7y ago
> Does this person not have a phone? 'Unable' seems like a stretch. If this person said, "I don't want to provide my phone number to Discord, so I'm going to stop using it" I'd understand. If I say "I am unable to do X" that might mean "My conscience compels me to refuse to do X" or "I literally cannot do X". Both interpretations are valid. > Their opening email also strikes a pretty aggressive tone -- calling Discord anal, insulting, "spit in my face" then goes on to make a number of demands of the company? I'm not super surprised the customer service rep on the other side didn't go out of their way to help. I suppose I agree with you that the email is rude. Then again, I don't mind giving out my phone number and email even though companies are using these things to track me, build a profile, and spam me. I'd rather that they didn't; I think it's corrosive behavior. But it doesn't affect me much and so I put up with it. Point is, the writer of these emails could be seen as heroic because he or she has principles and is refusing to back down (despite the rudeness). Like I said, I have similar principles but I'm not too fussed about them. This worries me sometimes. This level of invasion of privacy isn't the hill I'm willing to die on but I hope there is a hill I'd die on. If not, I'm an unprincipled person.
oceanghost 7y ago
He says he's using tor to access Discord. While there's nothing inherently wrong with that, the IP addresses of his exit nodes are probably flagged as frequent sources of abuse. People underestimate how hostile the internet truly is. I run a small website for a friend-- I'd say 90% of our traffic is spam/exploit fishing. I have at times blocked whole countries because we didn't have any business in that region and the abuse would not stop.
- wowaname 7y ago
  If you couldn't gather from my name on the sidebar and the overall site theme, I'm not a guy :p And yes, you're right about Tor IPs being flagged at greater frequency. That's fine, but I've had a clean account for over a year and have had no prior incidents. And a lot of abuse comes from IP addresses not related in any way to Tor, as well.
  - oceanghost 7y ago
    Would you have preferred the female equivalent? Doll/sweetheart/dame? :-)

chrisseaton 7y ago

I don't know any of the specifics of what's going on here, but phone verification is sometimes very tricky even for willing people, with a phone, and from western countries. I can't get a Lyft even when in the US because their verification system only works for US phone numbers and I have a British one!

lidHanteyk 7y ago

Discord's been an abusive member of the community for a long time. They distort nomenclature, mislead about their intentions, and aren't able to show that they protect personal information. As a light and funny example, Discord doesn't comply with the OpenSSL license.

Pfhreak 7y ago
> Discord doesn't comply with the OpenSSL license. In what way? Have you reached out to Discord to make them aware? They seem fairly committed to open source from everything I've read.
- lidHanteyk 7y ago
  The OpenSSL license for Discord's bundled versions of OpenSSL [0] has two conditions which are being violated. When they advertise the features of their client, or offer binaries of their client for download, they do not include the verbatim text, "This product includes software developed by the OpenSSL Project for use in the OpenSSL Toolkit. (http://www.openssl.org/)" http://www.openssl.org/)" They know that they are violating this license; they don't care. They are free to clean up their act at any time. [0] https://www.openssl.org/source/license-openssl-ssleay.txt https://www.openssl.org/source/license-openssl-ssleay.txt
  - ctrl-j 7y ago
    But that's not what the license says.. it says: * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * "This product includes cryptographic software written by * Eric Young (eay@cryptsoft.com)" I'm not a lawyer, but my interpretation of "this software" is OpenSSL, which wouldn't apply this clause to all advertising of discord features. It would be when they run advertisements that reference discord features that rely specifically on OpenSSL features. Which, isn't going to be that often, right? > They know that they are violating this license; they don't care. They are free to clean up their act at any time. Is this a known issue that's been brought up before? I've never heard of it, and would be interested to read up on it! I'm especially curious as to their response.
    - jhgg 7y ago
      We are not aware of non-compliance with the OpenSSL license. We attribute usage of OpenSSL in our licenses page (along with all the other OSS projects we use.) https://discordapp.com/licenses https://discordapp.com/licenses - reproducing the copyright notice as required by condition 2 of the license: > Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. As for condition 3, I am unable to locate any marketing materials which mention the usage of OpenSSL. However, if any such material exists that is in non-compliance we are very interested in ensuring that we are in compliance.

liability 7y ago

God forbid somebody spit some venom at a corporation they are otherwise powerless against.

esotericn 7y ago

Force is more aggressive than language. In that sense, bureaucracies are aggressive by default; that they use friendly language doesn't change this. Imagine that one day, your car locks you out, and there's a smiley face and it says "oh hey, just call this number dude". Is that any less aggressive simply because it's 'friendly'? Of course not. In many ways it's worse - because it's almost sarcastic (it's not _really_ that way, of course, because the customer support agent in this scenario is a robot, but it sure feels like it).

throwaway2048 7y ago
Yep, lots of people are stuck on the civility of words these days, and completely ignore the civility of actions and their consequences. People get mad and yelling about a war, absolutely unconscionable and should be disregarded and ignored, however thousands of people dying in said war, well at least nobody said bad words publicly about it, everyone was polite and civil when the decision that they should all die was made. Just because some automatic process has chosen to discriminate against you, for whatever reason (that mysteriously nobody ever seems to be able to disclose), doesn't make it any less of a hostile, uncivil act. But yet getting angry about it puts you in the wrong? Complete garbage.
- runlevel1 7y ago
  I'm reminded of the hollow "thoughts and prayers" platitude.

fbcpck 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentiveness

ChuckMcM 7y ago
Not at all, the author uses Tor to anonymize their location and probably system footprint. If you read the response the only "acceptable" phone number is a mobile phone. It de-anonymizes you because mobile providers hand out this sort of information for cash. The only reason for the phone number request, based on the requirements of what kind of phone numbers are acceptable (no VOIP, no landlines) is that they want to be know where this user is when ever they use the service, or how to locate them.
- deogeo 7y ago
  > It de-anonymizes you because mobile providers hand out this sort of information for cash. No, the mere fact of the phone companies even having that information de-anonymizes you. Suppose someone doesn't like what you have to say, sues you, and subpoenas the phone company for your information - that they don't sell it won't save you. Or you say something that upsets the phone company, its parent company, or one of its subsidiaries. It launches an internal investigation, and finds you [1]. All without selling or even sharing your information. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-microsoft-tracked-down-a-spy-who-leaked-its-secrets/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-microsoft-tracked-down-a-s...
- fbcpck 7y ago
  My comment was linking to a page explaining the term anal-retentiveness, which the parent poster clearly isn’t aware of, and is apparently flagged so no one can see it; what are you talking about?

wowaname 7y ago

Just a note: I do not ask to have my blog entries submitted to this site, precisely because the comments I receive here are very assumptuous and negative. I have had prior interactions with Discord which influenced the tone of my E-mail. My blog post is simply presented as-is and I really do not care what others have to say about it, but I have no control over what is submitted here. I just want people to keep this in mind should future posts of mine be submitted, before someone points out "hey, you got onto Hacker News again" and I have to be subjected to a bunch of people not getting the full picture (and even some people complaining how pink my site is... grow up).

pschastain 7y ago
Personally found the post interesting. I don't use Discord but I also refuse to give my number out for verification purposes - as you noted there are other ways to verify a users identity. Hopefully you don't get too much grief for being a female on the internet with an opinion :-/
- wowaname 7y ago
  I don't capitalise on my sex/gender; I just prefer the use of neutral language when talking about anyone of unknown gender. In any case; I signed up for this when deciding to put my ideas online, and it has given me a chance to connect with a lot of nice people, despite also having to take the negative audiences along with it. I definitely am surprised that my blog attracts as much positive attention as it does; I never really wrote with the assumption that I'd have far reach. But, it's nice that others out there do care about some of the things I do. Currently Discord doesn't require a number if you use your home IP to connect, but that could change at a moment's notice with their opaque methods of operation. I've used Tor with Discord for months without any issue until recently. So, it's probably better not to start using it now than to take that risk and be upset when they do find a reason to demand your personal information.
logicprog 7y ago
If you're worried about the full context not being understood, maybe add the necessary details? It doesn't have to be every possible detail, but you seem to have a clear idea of what context is missing, judging by your comment. So why not add it? Also, if your blog isn't meant to be read by people that don't know the context of your life already, making it public seems like an odd choice, especially when you say things that might be taken the wrong way. Also. If you really didn't care about what others said about it, why are you responding to such comments and displaying indignation? Why are you here at all? And re: the blog being pink, do you really think it's because there's an "adults/men can't like pink" prejudice going around on this very liberal site? Or maybe it's because pink (unless done right) is like neon green: not a very aesthetic choice?

leftyted 7y ago

> Does this person not have a phone? 'Unable' seems like a stretch. If this person said, "I don't want to provide my phone number to Discord, so I'm going to stop using it" I'd understand. If I say "I am unable to do X" that might mean "My conscience compels me to refuse to do X" or "I literally cannot do X". Both interpretations are valid. > Their opening email also strikes a pretty aggressive tone -- calling Discord anal, insulting, "spit in my face" then goes on to make a number of demands of the company? I'm not super surprised the customer service rep on the other side didn't go out of their way to help. I suppose I agree with you that the email is rude. Then again, I don't mind giving out my phone number and email even though companies are using these things to track me, build a profile, and spam me. I'd rather that they didn't; I think it's corrosive behavior. But it doesn't affect me much and so I put up with it. Point is, the writer of these emails could be seen as heroic because he or she has principles and is refusing to back down (despite the rudeness). Like I said, I have similar principles but I'm not too fussed about them. This worries me sometimes. This level of invasion of privacy isn't the hill I'm willing to die on but I hope there is a hill I'd die on. If not, I'm an unprincipled person.

oceanghost 7y ago

He says he's using tor to access Discord. While there's nothing inherently wrong with that, the IP addresses of his exit nodes are probably flagged as frequent sources of abuse. People underestimate how hostile the internet truly is. I run a small website for a friend-- I'd say 90% of our traffic is spam/exploit fishing. I have at times blocked whole countries because we didn't have any business in that region and the abuse would not stop.

wowaname 7y ago
If you couldn't gather from my name on the sidebar and the overall site theme, I'm not a guy :p And yes, you're right about Tor IPs being flagged at greater frequency. That's fine, but I've had a clean account for over a year and have had no prior incidents. And a lot of abuse comes from IP addresses not related in any way to Tor, as well.
- oceanghost 7y ago
  Would you have preferred the female equivalent? Doll/sweetheart/dame? :-)