4 ms·

I'm trying to write a polite response to this, but this just comes off as so cynical to me it's hard not to be outraged that this is the top post in this thread

by c3534l 7y ago

I'm trying to write a polite response to this, but this just comes off as so cynical to me it's hard not to be outraged that this is the top post in this thread right now. What's to stop you from apply the same argument to medicine? Why shouldn't we test the side effects of new drugs by testing it on people who don't know they're being drugged? We don't just want to improve AI, we also want to improve exercise equipment and parcel delivery. So of course you just have to surreptitiously record people's workout routines and put hidden tacking devices inside the products they buy off amazon. People should just know that if you buy a fancy Japanese toilet with a built-in bidet and heated seats, that it's also streaming video of your anus to HQ for quality control purposes. Just because you want to improve your product, that doesn't mean you can do anything you want. No one should have to assume that the products they're buying are Trojan horses that are secretly spying on them.

Retric 7y ago
It’s not a secret and it’s not new. (2013) https://www.wired.com/2013/04/siri-two-years/ https://www.wired.com/2013/04/siri-two-years/ Now sure they could say every individual think they do with this data. But, Apple makes it clear they collect and use this information to improve Siri. What else do people think this means?
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  The fact that I have to listen to a "your call may be monitored" spiel every time I talk to customer support leads me to believe tech should at least be annoying on first boot if never again. That you link an investigative Wired article shows that most people aren't going to know this information. Siri users aren't all 2013 Wired readers, nor are they waiting around to hear what an Apple spokesperson is going to clarify. Frankly, Apple should at least prompt people even just to be the good guy when it comes to privacy fallout on all these services.
  - Retric 7y ago
    You get a separate pop up to enable Siri. I read it and said no. Granted, that might not seem like enough, but it was clear enough IMO.
    - tripzilch 7y ago
      No, I agree that if the "your call may be monitored" is played before every monitored call centre phone call, then Siri should also remind people, at least once every other day. I'm not sure how often people reboot their iPhones, but I don't think doing it just on boot is enough, either. It would drive the point home if Siri just said, every N queries, "anything you say to me can and will be sent to Apple's servers for analysis purposes".
      - Retric 7y ago
        Call centers don’t know who is calling, and thus add the message every time. It’s essentially always the first message until you identify yourself. As to regular pop ups or messages, that’s simply a worse user experience for zero benefit.
KaiserPro 7y ago
You are of course, right to be angry. There is a reason I don't have an echo/home/$other. There is a reason I don't use cloud stuff for my personal life(where practical) I don't have web enabled CCTV, I don't smart locks, I generally don't have stuff with cameras in them. There is evidence for suggesting that the anonymisation apple uses is quite good. Unlike with alexa, siri recording I don't think have been used in court cases. This means that apple are fairly sure that they can't recover people's recording, on pain of contempt of court. Why is that important? because it means that its most likely GDPR compliant. If you are an EU citizen, I fully recommend you doing a subject access request, to see what data they hold on you. You are within your rights to have that data deleted, or amended. Or if you so wish, none of your details to be ever processed again. Now, sadly for the USA, your protections are frankly shite. I suspect you'll have to lobby your local politicians.

by c3534l 7y ago

Retric 7y ago

It’s not a secret and it’s not new. (2013) https://www.wired.com/2013/04/siri-two-years/ https://www.wired.com/2013/04/siri-two-years/ Now sure they could say every individual think they do with this data. But, Apple makes it clear they collect and use this information to improve Siri. What else do people think this means?

hombre_fatal 7y ago
The fact that I have to listen to a "your call may be monitored" spiel every time I talk to customer support leads me to believe tech should at least be annoying on first boot if never again. That you link an investigative Wired article shows that most people aren't going to know this information. Siri users aren't all 2013 Wired readers, nor are they waiting around to hear what an Apple spokesperson is going to clarify. Frankly, Apple should at least prompt people even just to be the good guy when it comes to privacy fallout on all these services.
- Retric 7y ago
  You get a separate pop up to enable Siri. I read it and said no. Granted, that might not seem like enough, but it was clear enough IMO.
  - tripzilch 7y ago
    No, I agree that if the "your call may be monitored" is played before every monitored call centre phone call, then Siri should also remind people, at least once every other day. I'm not sure how often people reboot their iPhones, but I don't think doing it just on boot is enough, either. It would drive the point home if Siri just said, every N queries, "anything you say to me can and will be sent to Apple's servers for analysis purposes".
    - Retric 7y ago
      Call centers don’t know who is calling, and thus add the message every time. It’s essentially always the first message until you identify yourself. As to regular pop ups or messages, that’s simply a worse user experience for zero benefit.

KaiserPro 7y ago

You are of course, right to be angry. There is a reason I don't have an echo/home/$other. There is a reason I don't use cloud stuff for my personal life(where practical) I don't have web enabled CCTV, I don't smart locks, I generally don't have stuff with cameras in them. There is evidence for suggesting that the anonymisation apple uses is quite good. Unlike with alexa, siri recording I don't think have been used in court cases. This means that apple are fairly sure that they can't recover people's recording, on pain of contempt of court. Why is that important? because it means that its most likely GDPR compliant. If you are an EU citizen, I fully recommend you doing a subject access request, to see what data they hold on you. You are within your rights to have that data deleted, or amended. Or if you so wish, none of your details to be ever processed again. Now, sadly for the USA, your protections are frankly shite. I suspect you'll have to lobby your local politicians.