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Software engineering is engineering in the same sense the mechanical engineering is engineering. The only difference is that with software your materials are d

Software engineering is engineering in the same sense the mechanical engineering is engineering. The only difference is that with software your materials are descriptions. I.e. you describe something, give to the computer and the computer turn itself into this something . In the end, there is a physical entity in the world (the hardware), which turned itself into a unique machine based on your description (for example an ATM). While in mechanical engineering, you materials are physical, which might make it easier to explain.

hyperpallium 7y ago
That is a valid argument if your concept of a mechanical engineer includes anyone who designs a machine; for example improvising levers, pulleys, gears to achieve some end. I guess it is all "engineering" in a casual, tinkering sense. But a professional engineer, with a Mech Eng degree who uses mathematical models of stress and strain etc, who did lots of tinkering as a kid, might not agree.
- ende 7y ago
  Again with the over emphasis on “state sanctioned recognition”.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    So will you call anyone that tells people what chemicals to ingest when "a doctor"? Will you call anyone on the Internet commenting on legal issues "a lawyer"? Or would you prefer people emphasize the meaning of "state sanctioned recognition" in these cases? Engineering is like law and medicine, in that it requires high skill and can hurt a lot of people if done badly. Not every country has engineering licensing, but I find myself increasingly agreeing with those that do. I feel calling software development engineering is mostly false advertising right now, only trying to capitalize on (and devalue) the status that engineering has in society.
Ozzie_osman 7y ago
I disagree. Engineering disciplines vary in how far removed they are from the underlying physics and how malleable they are. Building a bridge (or civil engineering) is very connected to the underlying physics. A set of equations give you the answers. It's also not malleable. You design it once, then build it, putting in some margins of safety to account for any variances in underlying material or potential usage, then it's pretty much not malleable. Mechanical engineering is a little more removed. You have moving parts, interconnected pieces, wear and tear, etc. Now you have to lean heavily on preventative maintenance, ability to replace worn parts, etc. Hardware is more removed. Software is even more removed. The laws of physics are there, but there are so many man-made layers of abstractions on top of it that "good architecture" is a lot less like what you'd expect in a typical engineering discipline. Not saying any is easier than the other, just that they are very different disciplines.
- temac 7y ago
  Your layering does not really have practical consequences that would matter to exclude a field for engineering. Plus you are focusing on the technologies, and while this is important this is really not what distinguish an engineer from a non-engineer technician (even an extremely skilled technician), and that part have way more things in common regardless of the field.
- streetcat1 7y ago
  There is not such thing is "partial" engineering. Engineering is the creation and ongoing management of any real world object (building, cars, bridge, computer) which has affect on its environment. I.e. they are placed in the real world to achieve some sort of a function. The role of the engineer is: 1) Find out what function a machine should provide 2) Create this function by building the artifact on time, and in cost effective manner. An artist on the other hand: 1) Does not care about the function. I.e. if the thing is useful or not. 2) Does not care about the time/cost etc. The fact that software is just a description (bunch of text files), does not mean that it does not affect the real world. As I said, the machine in the real world is the general propose computer. The computer understand this text files, and turn itself into the machine.

hyperpallium 7y ago

That is a valid argument if your concept of a mechanical engineer includes anyone who designs a machine; for example improvising levers, pulleys, gears to achieve some end. I guess it is all "engineering" in a casual, tinkering sense. But a professional engineer, with a Mech Eng degree who uses mathematical models of stress and strain etc, who did lots of tinkering as a kid, might not agree.

ende 7y ago
Again with the over emphasis on “state sanctioned recognition”.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  So will you call anyone that tells people what chemicals to ingest when "a doctor"? Will you call anyone on the Internet commenting on legal issues "a lawyer"? Or would you prefer people emphasize the meaning of "state sanctioned recognition" in these cases? Engineering is like law and medicine, in that it requires high skill and can hurt a lot of people if done badly. Not every country has engineering licensing, but I find myself increasingly agreeing with those that do. I feel calling software development engineering is mostly false advertising right now, only trying to capitalize on (and devalue) the status that engineering has in society.

Ozzie_osman 7y ago

I disagree. Engineering disciplines vary in how far removed they are from the underlying physics and how malleable they are. Building a bridge (or civil engineering) is very connected to the underlying physics. A set of equations give you the answers. It's also not malleable. You design it once, then build it, putting in some margins of safety to account for any variances in underlying material or potential usage, then it's pretty much not malleable. Mechanical engineering is a little more removed. You have moving parts, interconnected pieces, wear and tear, etc. Now you have to lean heavily on preventative maintenance, ability to replace worn parts, etc. Hardware is more removed. Software is even more removed. The laws of physics are there, but there are so many man-made layers of abstractions on top of it that "good architecture" is a lot less like what you'd expect in a typical engineering discipline. Not saying any is easier than the other, just that they are very different disciplines.

temac 7y ago
Your layering does not really have practical consequences that would matter to exclude a field for engineering. Plus you are focusing on the technologies, and while this is important this is really not what distinguish an engineer from a non-engineer technician (even an extremely skilled technician), and that part have way more things in common regardless of the field.
streetcat1 7y ago
There is not such thing is "partial" engineering. Engineering is the creation and ongoing management of any real world object (building, cars, bridge, computer) which has affect on its environment. I.e. they are placed in the real world to achieve some sort of a function. The role of the engineer is: 1) Find out what function a machine should provide 2) Create this function by building the artifact on time, and in cost effective manner. An artist on the other hand: 1) Does not care about the function. I.e. if the thing is useful or not. 2) Does not care about the time/cost etc. The fact that software is just a description (bunch of text files), does not mean that it does not affect the real world. As I said, the machine in the real world is the general propose computer. The computer understand this text files, and turn itself into the machine.