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The problem here is that there isn’t a non-private-enterprise privacy sensitive (although accessible with appropriate warrants etc) cashless money system IMO.

The problem here is that there isn’t a non-private-enterprise privacy sensitive (although accessible with appropriate warrants etc) cashless money system IMO. Cash enables so many problems in the world I’ll be happy to see the end of it.

tinus_hn 7y ago
All that darned privacy! If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
- aplummer 7y ago
  I’m saying it would need to be private, but still able to prevent money laundering, payments for sex trafficking, drug trade, weapons trade. I’m aware such a thing doesn’t exist and may never, but this would be the ideal state IMO.
  - throwaway34241 7y ago
    I agree. I understand the motivation to not have un-banked people locked out of the economy (although I don't know how big a problem that is in San Francisco yet - if it's only a couple experimental checkout-less stores it doesn't seem like a huge deal). But maybe a better eventual solution to that would be for everybody to have access to some basic banking services (and some sort of electronic payments). I think many countries provide it at post offices.
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    > it would need to be private, but still able to prevent money laundering That's like the big screen TV that is small enough to for in your purse. Let's not pretend both these things are possible.
    - aplummer 7y ago
      I’m an optimist that it’s possible. There are systems that are private but for legitimate government requirements with sensible public oversight. Maybe not in your jurisdiction, that would vary more than just about anything.
GhostVII 7y ago
What's your main problem with cash? Is it that it is fairly untraceable? Because for me that is the main benefit. If it is possible to access my purchase history with a warrant, it is also possible to access that history without one if the government or police force is malicious. And if we eliminated cash, people would just find something else to use for illegal payments (ex. gold, anonymous cryptocurrencies, etc.)

tinus_hn 7y ago

All that darned privacy! If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

aplummer 7y ago
I’m saying it would need to be private, but still able to prevent money laundering, payments for sex trafficking, drug trade, weapons trade. I’m aware such a thing doesn’t exist and may never, but this would be the ideal state IMO.
- throwaway34241 7y ago
  I agree. I understand the motivation to not have un-banked people locked out of the economy (although I don't know how big a problem that is in San Francisco yet - if it's only a couple experimental checkout-less stores it doesn't seem like a huge deal). But maybe a better eventual solution to that would be for everybody to have access to some basic banking services (and some sort of electronic payments). I think many countries provide it at post offices.
- paulddraper 7y ago
  > it would need to be private, but still able to prevent money laundering That's like the big screen TV that is small enough to for in your purse. Let's not pretend both these things are possible.
  - aplummer 7y ago
    I’m an optimist that it’s possible. There are systems that are private but for legitimate government requirements with sensible public oversight. Maybe not in your jurisdiction, that would vary more than just about anything.

GhostVII 7y ago

What's your main problem with cash? Is it that it is fairly untraceable? Because for me that is the main benefit. If it is possible to access my purchase history with a warrant, it is also possible to access that history without one if the government or police force is malicious. And if we eliminated cash, people would just find something else to use for illegal payments (ex. gold, anonymous cryptocurrencies, etc.)