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> I don't think suicide is ever the only solution. What do you base this on? Wishful thinking about the capability of modern medicine? Or a belief that it's

> I don't think suicide is ever the only solution. What do you base this on? Wishful thinking about the capability of modern medicine? Or a belief that it's a person's duty to live through intolerable pain for the sake of others? > It fills me with so much sadness to think that there might be one who reads this and thinks .. 'yep, that was the right thing to do'. It annoys me that so many people will take a person who finally found peace from a life of intolerable pain, and have no thought but 'I would prefer they hadn't done that, to satisfy my abstract beliefs about right and wrong.' I think the whole thing is very sad, but I feel very gratified to know that he is free of his demons forever.

rdtsc 16y ago
> What do you base this on? Wishful thinking about the capability of modern medicine? It could be a personal belief, just like your belief that "he is free of this demons forever" or the fact that he somehow "found peace". I don't see anything wrong with someone believing that suicide is never a good solution. > It annoys me that so many people will take a person who finally found peace from a life of intolerable pain. There is something about that statement that is bothering me and again, it is just probably because it clashes against my belief on life, death, etc. matters (so don't take this as a valid reasonable disagreement, just another point of view). The idea that somehow "he" is better now. I emphasize "he" because somehow it implies his continued existence, and that is quite strange. What if "he" doesn't exist anymore so there is nobody to feel at peace? Does that mean that I would have preferred for him to still be alive and be suffering? Would have that been a better way? I don't think so either, so I am just another confused person. I guess the best scenario would have been been if he sent out what he sent out but he didn't actually kill himself. Perhaps naively, I believe that would have helped him, it would have let others know about his problem, and others , maybe even strangers like us, discussing his actions here, could have shared our stories or tried to do something to help.
- haberman 16y ago
  I perceive the earnestness in your remarks, and I appreciate that. I mistook your earlier comments as more judgmental than they actually were. Sorry about that. When I was in college a girl who was a close friend of a close friend killed herself, and I remember experiencing the same kinds of regrets that you are expressing. Wasn't there anything else she could have done? Didn't she know how much people cared about her? Since then I've experienced things that have given me a different perspective, namely how a person's mind can be a prison of pain that all the external love in the world is a weak opponent against. I feel like Bill captured that when he described how even a relationship with a wonderful person whom he liked very much was sabotaged by his "darkness." Maybe there is a drug that could have given Bill peace in life, but reading his note I feel almost certain that nothing anyone could say or do would have soothed his torment.
lwhi 16y ago
I completely disagree. I don't dislike the idea of suicide because of a sense of morality. I think suicide should be avoided because it's so utterly final. Your opinion also involves an abstract belief, don't forget that. I'm an atheist - I don't think that heaven or hell awaits us when we die. I believe, when we die we cease to exist. Your point of view only makes sense if one accepts the idea that nothing can be improved. If we accept that there's no hope left in the world - why bother at all? There are whole fields of science dedicated to helping people improve their outlook on life after living with abuse. It's irresponsible to dismiss the options that are available. I still feel suicide isn't the only - or best - solution.

rdtsc 16y ago

> What do you base this on? Wishful thinking about the capability of modern medicine? It could be a personal belief, just like your belief that "he is free of this demons forever" or the fact that he somehow "found peace". I don't see anything wrong with someone believing that suicide is never a good solution. > It annoys me that so many people will take a person who finally found peace from a life of intolerable pain. There is something about that statement that is bothering me and again, it is just probably because it clashes against my belief on life, death, etc. matters (so don't take this as a valid reasonable disagreement, just another point of view). The idea that somehow "he" is better now. I emphasize "he" because somehow it implies his continued existence, and that is quite strange. What if "he" doesn't exist anymore so there is nobody to feel at peace? Does that mean that I would have preferred for him to still be alive and be suffering? Would have that been a better way? I don't think so either, so I am just another confused person. I guess the best scenario would have been been if he sent out what he sent out but he didn't actually kill himself. Perhaps naively, I believe that would have helped him, it would have let others know about his problem, and others , maybe even strangers like us, discussing his actions here, could have shared our stories or tried to do something to help.

haberman 16y ago
I perceive the earnestness in your remarks, and I appreciate that. I mistook your earlier comments as more judgmental than they actually were. Sorry about that. When I was in college a girl who was a close friend of a close friend killed herself, and I remember experiencing the same kinds of regrets that you are expressing. Wasn't there anything else she could have done? Didn't she know how much people cared about her? Since then I've experienced things that have given me a different perspective, namely how a person's mind can be a prison of pain that all the external love in the world is a weak opponent against. I feel like Bill captured that when he described how even a relationship with a wonderful person whom he liked very much was sabotaged by his "darkness." Maybe there is a drug that could have given Bill peace in life, but reading his note I feel almost certain that nothing anyone could say or do would have soothed his torment.

lwhi 16y ago

I completely disagree. I don't dislike the idea of suicide because of a sense of morality. I think suicide should be avoided because it's so utterly final. Your opinion also involves an abstract belief, don't forget that. I'm an atheist - I don't think that heaven or hell awaits us when we die. I believe, when we die we cease to exist. Your point of view only makes sense if one accepts the idea that nothing can be improved. If we accept that there's no hope left in the world - why bother at all? There are whole fields of science dedicated to helping people improve their outlook on life after living with abuse. It's irresponsible to dismiss the options that are available. I still feel suicide isn't the only - or best - solution.