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The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?
- nafey 7y agoNot gonna lie I had the impression that Amazon was gonna get wiped out in a matter of weeks considering the amount of attention this story has been getting.
- cameronbrown 7y agoThat's because the media want your eyeballs for ad impressions. It's sad how bad clickbait has gotten.
- Synaesthesia 7y agoOf course not, but it's on a steady path to destruction, if you look how it has dwindled over the decades. We ought to be concerned.
- maxheadroom 7y agoTo be fair, the article leaves out the size of the areas affected by the wildfires; however, it does proffer a guesstimation in the potential damage as a byproduct of the fires: >The fires have been releasing a large amount of carbon dioxide, the equivalent of 228 megatonnes so far this year, according to Cams, the highest since 2010. In units the Americans would be familiar with, that would be roughly 461,608,800,000 pounds of carbon dioxide. (1 tonne = ~2024.6 pounds, according to Wikipedia[0]). [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonne
- superpermutat0r 7y agoAll the rainforest will disappear around 2040-2060 based on current projections. Not that I blame the developing world for growing palm trees or soybean that feeds the cattle or gets into products for the developed world. Hail Globalization!
- vvvvz 7y agoEat your bugs you vermin.
- thelittleone 7y agoFor a few weeks there was almost zero news coverage. But the fires gained a lot of traction on the 20th of August [1]. The number of fires has increased year over year by 84% [2]. Given that the amazon produces 20% of Earth's oxygen that's quite a concern. I think the global outcry is warranted (any less may not have achieved a result). It's a good first step that Bolsonaro has deployed the Army for a month to fight the fires, time will tell if this is an authentic effort or one simply to quell the angry Internet mob. If we don't take a stand where profit > environment on a global scale are we not complicit in the destruction? [1] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%207-d&geo=US&q=amazon%20fires https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%207-d&geo=... [2] https://www.woodtv.com/news/international/sharp-increase-in-amazon-fires-this-year/ https://www.woodtv.com/news/international/sharp-increase-in-...
- deepnet 7y agoThe Amazon Rainforest Tipping Point is 20-25% deforestation total. We are at 20% deforestation now. https://phys.org/news/2018-03-amazon-deforestation.html https://phys.org/news/2018-03-amazon-deforestation.html The forest fires stem from previous deforestation, so destruction is cumulative, exponential. Past the tipping point the rainforest dies. To quote the Expanse, this is the cascade, (and we are nearing the point where) this station is already dead.
- brabel 7y ago> The forest fires stem from previous deforestation, so destruction is cumulative, exponential. That's just wrong. The fires can actually make the forest stronger next year[1]. This is part of the cycle of nature. Have you been to the Amazon? Pretty much every inch of it has burned in the past, but after a year or so, you could barely tell, as in the wet season, the plants grow a lot faster than most people who are not from the region can even imagine. [1] http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0001-37652019000300855 http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0001...
- deepnet 7y agoThe evidence disagrees, the link I posted provides evidence that the majority of the forest fires stem from previous clearances. While there is a natural role for fire in forests this is unsustainable and close to a tipping point of unrecoverable.
- farseer 7y agoThe forest does recover, unless the burnt area is cleared and planted with soy or corn of-course.
- edmundo 7y agoOur information ecosystem is truly polluted. It's hard to find impartial journalism these days – or maybe it was always like that? I think that our willingness to share content (without thinking) is exploited to spread disinformation.
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- makomk 7y agoEven this article isn't great, though it's obviously better than the hoaxes on social media. For instance, they start off the article with the claim that Brazil has seen a record number of forest fires in 2019 and a scary-looking graph of them increasing from 2013. They then follow up with a repetition of activists' claims that right-wing president Jair Bolsonaro is to blame. You have to scroll down several pages to the very end of the article before you find out that actually, the fire activity is close to average and 2013 was an unusualy fire-free year - and also many of the other countries in the region are seeing similar increases in the number of fires.
- lxhmj 7y agoIt's the BBC... what do you expect, quality?
- cameronbrown 7y agoNot really, they've had a slow and steady decline into becoming a tabloid over the past decade. That doesn't mean we can't hold a state broadcaster to a higher standard than others.
- meerita 7y agoQuality black Aquiles level :)
- Tycho 7y ago“this article isn't great” From your description, that seems like an understatement. If you cherry pick starting points to make s graph look dramatic and leave out crucial context so that readers will assume the worse, that’s not just “not great” it’s flat out fraudulent, manipulative propaganda.
- ntnxw 7y agoIn the average of the last 15 years: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-brazil https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra... >As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years.
- lxhmj 7y agoIn the average of the last 15 years: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-brazil https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra... >As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years.
- meerita 7y agoThis is amazing. It's amazing how the histeria has spreaded like a virulent disease but people never cared to learn about this. First, there's a "fire season", then the averages and then, the current situation. But it's amazing how easy they blamed capitalism and bolsonaro in the socialmedia. The worst of this situations: some progressive PM did it too falling into the perseption fallacy. How sad this world has became with Social media.
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- guilhas 7y agoThe problem is a combination of factors, what for others would have been a tragedy to avoid, the current Brazilian president welcomes the fires as an opportunity to dislodge natives and sell more land and wood.
- kebman 7y agoThere is also a big forest fire in Siberia, but I can't remember seeing anything on it in the Norwegian press. There are some stories about the Amazon fire, though. Perhaps the one in Siberia is less dangerous? I don't know! Why is the Amazon fire worse? Or can you compare them at all?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoYet the BBC did an identical style piece about the Siberian fires about a month ago. So what's your gripe with this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49125391 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49125391
- Synaesthesia 7y agoLet's not forget the recent and ongoing fires in Indonesia, home to one of the world's last and largest rainforests.
- thewhitetulip 7y agoAmazon is the source for 20% oxygen. Brasil's president thinks climate change is a myth (just like every conservative head of state these days) It's scary how much he could damage the world by flattening the Amazon
- austincheney 7y agoI don’t think that is accurate. Most of the oxygen produced by the Amazon remains local and is consumed by local fauna. The rest of the world is almost entirely dependent upon local systems and oceanic diatoms for oxygen. There are many other serious environmental concerns at stake, but not oxygen loss.
- thewhitetulip 7y agoMakes sense that regions would have a local source of O2. But it will have some impact on CO2 right?
- pvaldes 7y agoDuh... very bad? State of emergency in the largest state of Brasil 75.000 wildfires in 8 months, double as in the last year 200 millions of tonnes of CO2 released, actively boycotting any chance of fixing climate of the planet Deforestation accelerated in a 278%, actively increasing the six extinction rate But, but... this is happening since the last decades also!, so, oki doki. All is fine like soy ice cream. Not Bolsonarson fault.
- vfc1 7y agoWhen the Amazon turns into a savannah well into our lifetime, we will see how this stuff looks like historically. I suspect though that the attention that the press is giving to this year's fires, which are catastrophic and need attention, has something to do with the fact that Brasil is about to sign a historic trade agreement with the EU and this is being used to politically pressure Brasil into stopping the increasing deforestation. Which I'm all for it, I get it that it's politics and that's how it works, I just don't like the manipulation.
- fwsgonzo 7y agoThe "manipulation" to stop destroying the planet? To me its all about the accelerated logging in the amazon basin that we know is fatal.
- EugeneOZ 7y agoNo. This year Russia lost 3 times more forest and nobody cares :) All the noise is just about politics.
- aliveupstairs 7y agoAny sources on that?
- pvaldes 7y agoA hectare of forest lost in brazil is not equivalent to an hectare lost in Taiga. Biodiversity in taiga is not even remotely close to the biodiversity in rainforests. There are decens of different species of trees, giving fruits, supporting bromeliads, hundreds of orchids, arboreal frogs, monkeys, sloths, macrobats, snails, spiders, scorpions, thousands of different insects, snakes, hundred of birds, raptors, lizards, thousands of different fishes also in the flooded soil ... You will never find that in a taiga's pine. Taiga is a frozen void desert for many months of the year (and has been devoid of most of this former macrofauna yet). Is not always about politics.
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- hannob 7y agoThis article completely fails to mention a very important issue: Scientists are worried that the amazon may approach a tipping point after which the ecosystem will completely collapse. The guardian has a better take on the story: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/23/amazon-fires-what-is-happening-anything-we-can-do https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/23/amazon-f...
- sprafa 7y agoSounds likely to me. If you mess around with any ecosystem enough it will change unpredictably
- bsaul 7y agoI hope you do realize your comment is about as rational as dark ages priests and peasants blaming villager’s sins for the bad harvesting ( i don’t mean to pick a personnal fight with you in particular, just that your opinion seems very widespread even on this forum, and it worries me)
- sprafa 7y agoBlah I said “sounds likely”. Is this priests said in the Middle Ages
- meerita 7y agoAll I have seen these days in the press is to blame Bolsonaro, of some fires that occur, every year, for decades on an area of 5,500,000 km2 and you will tell me how a person can monitor so much surface, which is not even People can travel. Presidents of other countries that I am not going to mention have campaigned against Bolsonaro using old photos. It is unfortunate the political use that is being given to this, added to the contribution that the press is making to the levels of hysteria of the people, does not help at all.
- fwsgonzo 7y agoBolsonaro is a dangerous far-right buffoon who is accelerating logging in the amazon basin. If you want to talk about politics then why was his direct opponent put in jail during the election? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics/brazils-bolsonaro-names-judge-who-jailed-his-rival-as-justice-minister-idUSKCN1N65CE https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics/brazils-b... He is basically the encyclopaedia image of corruption.
- meerita 7y agoHis direct oponent was guilty of several corruption cases. It went on an extensive judiciary process i believe you have followed or you understand. It wasnt jailed summarily. The supreme court even denied by votation so, it is not something we can relate to the amazonian fire season.
- guilhas 7y agoHis opponent was jailed with zero proof, in a sham that clear at the time for anyone that understands the justice process. But recently it was clear for everyone with the judge Moro leaked WhatsApp messages. https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/national-politics/new-lava-jato-leak-while-mocking-lula-moro-was-instructing-the-prosecution/ https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/national...
- andrenth 7y ago
- aaron695 7y agoWe see things like this and people still rabid on about global warming. How hard is it to understand we own this plant, it's destruction (and repair) is done by hand, not some mythical gas that might cause some damage in 100 years time when we are all in flying cars. I guess blaming CO2 us an easy out for most people.
- guilhas 7y agoIt is very bad because the current president policy is to sell and deforest for farms or cattle, without any worry of the ecosystem or native people of the area. Which should be preserve and protect. In terms of the area affected by fire, more burned in Portugal in 2018, which is a very small compared with Amazon size.
- meerita 7y agoDo you have any oficial policy document that support that claim?
- guilhas 7y agoWhen asked about deforestation the president, which is a retarded version of Trump, called himself 'Captain Chainsaw'. And that his government can do whatever they want with their forest. When asked about the fires he blamed the natives and the Amazon protection ONGs. Quick search shows recent leaked documents. But they are unnecessary since the president does not hide his intentions in speeches and interviews. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/amazon-rainforest-fires-jair-bolsonaro-ngo-san-paolo-a9075071.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/amazon-rai...
- meerita 7y agoThen you have 0 proof. The NASA Observatory, which studies the amazonian fire seasons since many years contradicts the current situation with evidence https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-brazil https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-bra...
- guilhas 7y agoYou did not read what I wrote. What I said does not go against what NASA is saying there. If anything is a corroboration. Also, how can you say '0 proof', when you asked for government document, and I gave you a link with exactly that, news on government leaked document.
- Spoppys 7y agoI'm seeing a lot of apparently conflicting information about these Amazon fires. I've seen sources saying its about average, and I've seen sources saying it's the worst since 2010. Are they in disagreement, or are they measuring different things, so aren't disagreeing? Or is something else going on? I'm kinda lost
- makomk 7y agoFrom the Guardian article, the amount of ash and particulates in some Brazilian states has hit the highest levels since 2010. There are 27 states in Brazil (though I'm not sure all of them are downwind from rainforest or agricultural areas). Basically, in some areas it's the worst it's been since 2010, but overall it's about average.
- sc4les 7y agoCheap burgers are cheap for reasons
- LifeLiverTransp 7y agoHonestly, its not the first time we had massive deforrestation in human habitats- china has been there- several times. The solution is- for nature to adapt to human nature- aka Bamboo.. bamboo sprouts everyhwere you allow it - side of the road, just cleared ditch in the forrest- it grows fast and prevents savannah formation. Finally- if you want to stop this, prevent further deforrestation, you need something like a solarpanel with a cheap nitrogen from air harvesting process- creating fertilizer for near low to nothing onsite, making those fields last. These are the only strategys i can see working longterm- not depending on politics and ilusionary wishes for cultural change. I wrote a porn script for angels once- still waiting for the right cast to show up, but then oh, wow.
- sarbaz 7y agoI've read like 10 articles about this so far, and they did not answer the following questions: - How large, proportionally, is the burned region? How long would it theoretically take for the whole thing to burn down at this rate? - How large, proportionally is the burned region in Siberia? How long has the Siberian fire been burning, how long would it take for everything to burn down, etc. - I've seen the 20% of the worlds oxygen stat a bunch. But how significant is this fire in affecting that? Wouldn't we expect the Siberian fire to have a larger effect because it covers a thousand times more area? - Can anyone explain the tipping-point business? How can a series of local fires cause a global collapse? Especially considering that this is neither the first nor the biggest fire? - Do these fires burn themselves out? How do they end?
- sarbaz 7y ago> - Can anyone explain the tipping-point business? How can a series of local fires cause a global collapse? Especially considering that this is neither the first nor the biggest fire? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_savannas_of_North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_savannas_of_Nort... seems to suggest that specifically burned areas of rainforest turn into savannah. But a lack of fire will cause a reversion to rainforest.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoThe best lay explanation of the tipping point business I saw recently was this Economist piece: https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/08/01/the-amazon-is-approaching-an-irreversible-tipping-point https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/08/01/the-amazon-is-... In short beyond a certain point the local climate becomes unsuited to the flora, further encouraging deforestation and changing the climate, which becomes more prone to drought. Meanwhile the evaporative cooling from the shrinking expanse of trees declines, changing the climate and encouraging drought. It becomes a reinforcing effect.
- lucianomt 7y agoThe "20% of the world's oxygen" claim is unfounded. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2019/08/23/as-the-amazon-fires-spread-so-did-this-unfounded-statistic/#1fe26c7a1ea9 https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2019/08/23/as-the... As the professor states in his tweets, there are legitimate reasons to avoid deforestation ("for climate, for biodiversity, for indigenous communities"). Oxygen supply is not one of them.
- Bombthecat 7y agoLast I read was, that die back is at around 20 to 25percent. We are at 20 percent. I would say, yeah it is bad :)
- lazyjones 7y agoLike so many other articles, this one contains no information about the possible causes and motives behind forest fires, just a bit of hearsay. Surely in most countries, land that is forest has to stay forest even after a fire and cannot legally be used as farm land? What is the legal situation in Brazil? Could it be that reforestation has other economic benefits, like new CO2 credits?
- sprafa 7y agoEveryone who is Brazilian will tell you it’s a long shot that this is anything but big landowners. They’ve been doing this for ages and they have murdered people who tried to stop them. The law in Brasil is not like in other places. You think someone will stop a big landowner from getting more land after it’s been deforested? The new President has gutted the environmental agencies so nothing will or can be done. Here’s an article on rolling stone with some more detail: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/brazilian-farmers-believe-they-have-the-right-to-burn-the-amazon-875879/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/brazilia... Notice how the local government office is under armed protection. This is to protect them from the big landowners. This is not unusual in Brasil. Please do more research
- sprafa 7y agoAlso the article is openly quoting Brasilian forest agencies - you think that’s hearsay? That’s pretty silly
- namaku0 7y agoVERY BAD, because now someone need to add 'in Brazil' to avoid confusion.
- b212 7y agoNASA came up with a follow up article and it seems like there's a lot of fire in Amazon currently "making it the most active fire year in that region since 2010". So looks like it's been worse only 9 years ago and in some stupid articles I read that we lost 20% of Amazon in the last month or so... Amazon apparently has "fire season" every year when fire blasts there for months. I feel like someone is trying to set up Bolsonaro or maybe the histeria is accidental because this years "fire season" in Amazon is "dry season" for media? The charts does not look so bad this year, but I suppose 99% people have no idea Amazon burns every year: https://www.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145498/uptick-in-amazon-fire-activity-in-2019 https://www.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145498/uptick-i... I mean it's really good we're finally opening our eyes (it might be too late though), but I feel like we're being manipulated big time.