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Evil is a little extreme. The drivers are still doing it, so they clearly prefer giving you a ride to not. To add in some more anecdotal stories — the only tim

by cactus2093 7y ago

Evil is a little extreme. The drivers are still doing it, so they clearly prefer giving you a ride to not. To add in some more anecdotal stories — the only times I really take a lot of Ubers and talk to the drivers are when traveling, and I’ve found the opposite. In Austin and Portland recently I talked to quite a few drivers that were happy with the job. And they all mentioned the flexible hours as a perk. One guy was retired and just liked getting out of the house and meeting people and making a bit of extra money to spend. A lot of people did it as a second job, but emphasized that if they don’t feel like it on any given day they can just stay home, which is very unlike any non-contract second job you could get. Obviously there are also some miserable drivers, like the ones picketing and wanting to be employees not contractors. But even though I’m pretty liberal on a lot of issues it’s hard for me to jump on the progressive bandwagon on this one because it seems so clear that most people, riders and drivers, are much better off than if Uber didn’t exist. I do suspect that the cost of living and housing in these cities I mentioned has something to do with it. They’re still low enough that driving for Uber can make you real money, compared to somewhere like SF where everyone who doesn’t make like $150k or more is screwed.

jrockway 7y ago
> The drivers are still doing it, so they clearly prefer giving you a ride to not. I'm not sure they've thought it through all the way. They're not sick today, so they don't need health insurance. Their car is new and doesn't need any major work, so the finances of eventually having to replace their car don't matter. Basically, I fear that we're getting the low prices we get by mortgaging the future. One day, your driver is going to need surgery and 3 months off to recover. One day, your driver's car is going to need a new engine. He goes into debt and suffers, all so that we can pay $3 less for a ride across town after a night of drinking. That does not sit well with me. We need to understand the true cost of someone's time and materials and make sure we pay that for the ride. I'm not saying it's ever been good. Where Uber gets you now, it was people loaning you money to buy a medallion. Medallions are now worthless and guess who is left holding the bag? Not the regulators. Not the bank that made the loan. Just someone who wanted to work for himself now financially ruined; no way to send the kids to college, no way to afford medical care, no way to buy food or shelter in retirement. I think I'll walk.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  They're not sick today, so they don't need health insurance In the U.K. they’re not sick today so they don’t need the NHS so they don’t mind that Uber pays no Employer’s NI.
  - tomp 7y ago
    Employer NI is a scam anyways - some government or another needed more money, but didn't want to piss off the populace by raising taxes, so they increased taxes "invisibly" - you still get paid the same (as specified in your contract), you're just suddenly more expensive to the employer. Also, if self-employed people pay less tax than employees, that's not their fault. Again, it's a tax avoidance scam primarily perpetuated by the government (guess why? so that the lawmakers and/or their proteges can pay less tax themselves!). People respond to incentives, as they should.
- slfnflctd 7y ago
  I'm a driver. Honestly, it pays the bills just fine where I am. All you need is a modicum of financial sense and it works. Drive a low-maintenance, fuel efficient car (say, a Prius). Consciously curtail putting miles on that you aren't being paid for. Keep it clean, have water/chargers on hand for passengers, and be nice. Learn when the app/passenger is screwing you, and get better at avoiding those situations. I can go out on nearly any weekday, spend roughly $12 on gas, and make $140 in fares after a tolerable amount of time. Weekend nights are even better, if I feel up for dealing with drunks. This pays my bills (including my car payment). By the time my car needs to be replaced, it will most likely have been paid off for a while. So I'll buy another. Rinse and repeat. I don't see how this is any different from the majority of other entry level, lower wage jobs available out there-- except for how the working conditions are vastly superior, and how I can go home any time, how I can take vacation any time, and how I don't have to put up with jackass co-workers or managers. Oh yeah, and I can even block a passenger I don't like from future rides with me if I really need to (but after over 1,200 rides, I still haven't had the need yet). I think I can keep doing this for a while longer.
- sokoloff 7y ago
yourapostasy 7y ago
> ...is very unlike any non-contract second job you could get. I suspect there is a business opportunity lurking here. Setting up the financial, legal, and political infrastructure to stand up this kind of "non-contract second job" structure in as many jurisdictions and as consistently as Uber did is a gargantuan accomplishment. Uber is only monetizing it in a few, narrow, specific ways. This overall platform is useful in many other contexts that other businesses would use, but Uber hasn't opened up to them, AWS-like. There are plenty of other competitors that are trying to reproduce Uber's technical and non-technical infrastructure for other verticals, but I don't see recognition of the value of delivering the infrastructure itself for ad hoc, rapid, emergent workforce for general utilization by other smaller enterprises. Prosaically for example, if a utility company that hasn't yet switched to entirely-Net-based meter reading yet could distribute their meter reading activity using Uber's infrastructure, then it would save tremendous wear and tear on the centralized meter reading teams' capital equipment and let them transition into more supervisory, QA, and customer support management roles. Uber worked out the logistical details of background checking, badging, etc. and leverages the same experience to apply to the new, distributed meter reading workforce.

jrockway 7y ago

> The drivers are still doing it, so they clearly prefer giving you a ride to not. I'm not sure they've thought it through all the way. They're not sick today, so they don't need health insurance. Their car is new and doesn't need any major work, so the finances of eventually having to replace their car don't matter. Basically, I fear that we're getting the low prices we get by mortgaging the future. One day, your driver is going to need surgery and 3 months off to recover. One day, your driver's car is going to need a new engine. He goes into debt and suffers, all so that we can pay $3 less for a ride across town after a night of drinking. That does not sit well with me. We need to understand the true cost of someone's time and materials and make sure we pay that for the ride. I'm not saying it's ever been good. Where Uber gets you now, it was people loaning you money to buy a medallion. Medallions are now worthless and guess who is left holding the bag? Not the regulators. Not the bank that made the loan. Just someone who wanted to work for himself now financially ruined; no way to send the kids to college, no way to afford medical care, no way to buy food or shelter in retirement. I think I'll walk.

goatinaboat 7y ago
They're not sick today, so they don't need health insurance In the U.K. they’re not sick today so they don’t need the NHS so they don’t mind that Uber pays no Employer’s NI.
- tomp 7y ago
  Employer NI is a scam anyways - some government or another needed more money, but didn't want to piss off the populace by raising taxes, so they increased taxes "invisibly" - you still get paid the same (as specified in your contract), you're just suddenly more expensive to the employer. Also, if self-employed people pay less tax than employees, that's not their fault. Again, it's a tax avoidance scam primarily perpetuated by the government (guess why? so that the lawmakers and/or their proteges can pay less tax themselves!). People respond to incentives, as they should.
slfnflctd 7y ago
I'm a driver. Honestly, it pays the bills just fine where I am. All you need is a modicum of financial sense and it works. Drive a low-maintenance, fuel efficient car (say, a Prius). Consciously curtail putting miles on that you aren't being paid for. Keep it clean, have water/chargers on hand for passengers, and be nice. Learn when the app/passenger is screwing you, and get better at avoiding those situations. I can go out on nearly any weekday, spend roughly $12 on gas, and make $140 in fares after a tolerable amount of time. Weekend nights are even better, if I feel up for dealing with drunks. This pays my bills (including my car payment). By the time my car needs to be replaced, it will most likely have been paid off for a while. So I'll buy another. Rinse and repeat. I don't see how this is any different from the majority of other entry level, lower wage jobs available out there-- except for how the working conditions are vastly superior, and how I can go home any time, how I can take vacation any time, and how I don't have to put up with jackass co-workers or managers. Oh yeah, and I can even block a passenger I don't like from future rides with me if I really need to (but after over 1,200 rides, I still haven't had the need yet). I think I can keep doing this for a while longer.
sokoloff 7y ago

yourapostasy 7y ago

> ...is very unlike any non-contract second job you could get. I suspect there is a business opportunity lurking here. Setting up the financial, legal, and political infrastructure to stand up this kind of "non-contract second job" structure in as many jurisdictions and as consistently as Uber did is a gargantuan accomplishment. Uber is only monetizing it in a few, narrow, specific ways. This overall platform is useful in many other contexts that other businesses would use, but Uber hasn't opened up to them, AWS-like. There are plenty of other competitors that are trying to reproduce Uber's technical and non-technical infrastructure for other verticals, but I don't see recognition of the value of delivering the infrastructure itself for ad hoc, rapid, emergent workforce for general utilization by other smaller enterprises. Prosaically for example, if a utility company that hasn't yet switched to entirely-Net-based meter reading yet could distribute their meter reading activity using Uber's infrastructure, then it would save tremendous wear and tear on the centralized meter reading teams' capital equipment and let them transition into more supervisory, QA, and customer support management roles. Uber worked out the logistical details of background checking, badging, etc. and leverages the same experience to apply to the new, distributed meter reading workforce.