7 ms·

These are not the only two options. There's a third activity most of us seem to have forgotten - to simply be. For me, the very act of everyday living has beco

These are not the only two options. There's a third activity most of us seem to have forgotten - to simply be. For me, the very act of everyday living has become very enjoyable and fulfilling in recent years. Doing the dishes, cooking, gardening, sweeping the floor, putting out the trash. Those are not "chores", that's what life's made of. Some of it creative, some not, but the difference is you're simply present in the moment and in the world.

trevyn 7y ago
I 100% agree, and I think that most people today need more guidance to achieve this than a snapshot of the target state. Always interested in hearing unusual answers as to how we might approach this challenge.
thrav 7y ago
Maintenance is either the one thing everyone forgets in these conversations, or it’s the one thing everyone says no one will want to do. If there were a return to pride in and appreciation of a job well done, there would be no shortage of people willing to do the work, in my mind. The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status.
- tkbtkbtkb 7y ago
  I assume many people view menial tasks as below them, and it also seems to differ in degree culturally. I'm from the US, and on a recent trip to Japan I noticed a stark difference in the pride and responsibility the average citizen showed in taking good care of even small spaces. It appeared to be an appreciation for the aesthetics of life, no matter the scale. This isn't valued in the same way in America, where anything that isn't the top feels like it's not worth one's time.
  - thrav 7y ago
    Yep. I felt the same way in Japan. There appeared to be dignity in certain kinds of work in a way that there is not in the United States, and in most cases this yielded superior results of that work. They do so many foods better than the people who invented them.
- jeena 7y ago
  I'm not convinced, I think not doing the dishes, not taking out the trash, not sweeping the floor is a demonstration of a low status. That is if you can't afford to pay someone and you still don't do it. People with a clean home have a higher status.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    That's beside the point though. You might be considered very low status if you "can't afford to pay someone and you still don't do it", and slightly less low status if you do them yourself. One is lowly and dirty-ass, the other is lowly-and-clean. But not lofty and successful as "I'm all about creating, I have staff to do those things, can't be bothered as my time is precious". To the more well off/elites etc, someone who "can't afford to pay someone" and does those things themselves is still low status. They are not going to get impressed with someone cleaning the house themselves...
    - IggleSniggle 7y ago
      There are many social hierarchies. To the plurality of my own, those that pay someone else to clean up after them and to feed them are of lower moral character and thus lower status. You can be high status and poor, or high status and rich, but the former is easier to achieve. This probably stems from a “it is easier to thread a camel through a needle than for a rich man to find grace” kind of mentality, but also relates to values of self-sufficiency. Nevermind that everyone goes to the grocery and only maintains small vegetable gardens. As someone who likes to make money, I am in a subculture of my immediate social network.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status. Maybe some people. Not others. N=1. I absolutely don't think maintenance is "low status". I just consider it a waste of human time and resources that interferes with deriving utility and enjoyment from things, but is strictly necessary. It's something to be minimized, both in terms of doing no more than strictly necessary and finding technological solutions to reduce maintenance burdens of products/systems. But when it has to be done it has to be done, I have no problems with it. It has nothing to do with status. Most maintenance work isn't done in front of people, and not doing it at all signals much lower status than doing it. Rich people may do less of it themselves because they can afford to pay someone else to do maintenance tasks.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status. >Maybe some people. Not others.* Well, parent already said "most people", not all. (But even if they haven't said "most", one should assume they allow for exceptions in any general statement in a casual conversation. Unless of course they used the universal quantifier and insisted on "absolutely everybody, no exceptions whatsoever". But I digress). >It has nothing to do with status. Most maintenance work isn't done in front of people It doesn't have to be to be associated with low status though. It's merely enough that it's considered as stopping one from doing the things they think would raise their status (what they "should be doing" that's not beneath them).
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > Well, parent already said "most people", not all. What I meant is, while I can't read minds, "most people" disagrees with the ad-hoc statistical sample of "people I know". What I perceive is people differing in the amount of resistance they have towards doing unwanted things that still need to be done, but I maybe once saw it being considered a status issue. > It's merely enough that it's considered as stopping one from doing the things they think would raise their status (what they "should be doing" that's not beneath them). Do people really think this way? "This task is beneath me", "that other task is not beneath me"? I consider chores to be stopping me from doing things "I should be doing", but it has nothing to do with status; it's just about having better things to do with the time. I hate chores as much now as I hated them in the days I had trouble making ends meet; the only difference is that nowadays I can afford reducing some of them (e.g. I have a dishwasher now, and I can afford a little bit extra to buy something that's easier to clean than the cheapest option). Rich people are able to outsource more. Maybe the picture is backwards? Outsourcing chores is a status signal in the sense that your ability to reduce maintenance burden is correlated to your wealth. That doesn't mean people hate maintenance because of status - what makes this a good status signal in the first place is that chores are a waste of life.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >If there were a return to pride in and appreciation of a job well done, there would be no shortage of people willing to do the work, in my mind. The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status. The whole modern economy is based on having them feel low status... People content with their jobs and lives don't consume as much. The whole 1.2 trillion dollar advertising industry (plus tons of non-measured counterparts, e.g. lifestyle articles in magazines, movies etc) is based on promoting unattainable lifestyles as exciting to sell products they associate with them.
- koonsolo 7y ago
  The problem with maintenance is that you are trying to keep the status quo, and not really improving things permanently. That is the main reason for me that I don't enjoy that work as much, because next week all your effort will be gone again.
  - biohax2015 7y ago
    On a long enough timespan, all of our work will be gone anyway.
  - johnisgood 7y ago
    All your effort put into, say, eating healthily is not really gone though, is it?
    - koonsolo 7y ago
      True. But if you have kids, all your effort cleaning the kitchen will be gone in a few hours.
benj111 7y ago
Speaking as someone who enjoys cooking, gardening, and yes even washing up, I should be a Zen master right? But I'm not, so there must be something else going on here. I guess it's a combination of both work and play being more consumptive/prescriptive. There's no space to put your own stamp on things. The obvious counter to this is all the what would have been factory workers (in the west) that now seem to have more freedom. To which I would guess that essays complaining about lack of creativity tend to be written by the well off, where as the less well of have other concerns.
- kaybe 7y ago
  I feel it's also something about the ease you can do things with and your deeper feelings about them. When something is easy to do well because all the supplies are easy to reach, in good order and condition (the joy of a new sponge for dishes!) and there is not too much of it and you don't have to climb around other messes it's nice. We become used to suboptimal situations so quickly, and the bad feelings of stuffiness and annoyance are buried below more immediate issues. Taking an hour or two and identify/remove the pain points can improve the task experience greatly.
jcelerier 7y ago
> Doing the dishes, cooking, gardening, sweeping the floor, putting out the trash. Those are not "chores", that's what life's made of. I mean, I do my chores everyday too but I'd muuuuch rather be playing guitar or reading a book. Don't take any pleasure in cleaning the plates.
- johnisgood 7y ago
  Yeah, but in the end your environment is now much cleaner. Is not there a feeling of pleasure because of this? So while you may not have a pleasure in the process, you may derive pleasure from the outcome or result.
  - Allower 7y ago
    In other words: The accumulated displeasure of a messy cluttered environment and neglected responsibilities will quickly surpass the accumulated displeasure of occasionally doing chores. Realizing this can make doing the chores actually somewhat enjoyable.
Kiro 7y ago
> Doing the dishes, cooking, gardening, sweeping the floor, putting out the trash. Those are not "chores", that's what life's made of. If that's life I may just as well kill myself.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  I feel the same. There's nothing that makes you feel your life is pointless as much as doing chores. Recurring, unending, and unpleasant, all they amount to is treading water. I can't imagine a state of mind where one could find meaning of life in this. It feels a bit similar to finding meaning in death, which I personally consider a large-scale case of Stockholm syndrome.
  - slx26 7y ago
    I agree with the feeling, and I want to add a few things to try to help both sides understand. I don't think it's appropriate to say that "life is made of". Admittedly, "life is full of", and if you can enjoy those menial tasks, reach that "zen" level as some say, that's great. In that case it's true that your "life is made of", and if you can enjoy it, much better for you. The less you need to live happy, the easier it's to achieve that happiness. And in fact, most of us could learn a bit of that. Accept that we have to deal with those things, and at least try to not torture ourselves with it, enjoy it as much as possible (even if in some cases it doesn't seem to amount to much). All that being said, I think it's also easy to lose perspective when you manage to achieve a certain degree of happiness or comfortability through that kind of routine, or when you deeply believe in that idea. In particular, I believe that's a state that not everyone can reach, and I doubt it's a matter of being trained enough or trying hard enough. Some people just have a natural need to create, or explore, or need to actively fight and try to change the world they live in, or whatever. Sometimes, that comes from inside, in the same way as hunger, or your need to sleep. This probably sounds hyperbolic. For most people, it probably is. But this is the kind of issue that you can only really understand if you personally live it, because it is a psychological need, and that's very hard to communicate to others who don't feel the same way. In conclusion: I absolutely believe those who say that they find meaning in a life like this. I actually think that most people can find meaning in a life like this, and I believe the social factor is the most relevant for most people's happiness. But I also believe there's a lot of people who can't find meaning in a life like this, as much as they try, because they have other needs, and trying to supress them it's not only unreasonable, but a nice attempt at torture. I can understand the people that says that they would rather kill themselves. Hopefully this adds a bit more context.
daseiner1 7y ago
before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. after enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.
- opportune 7y ago
  I am pretty sure the meaning of that saying is that the structure of your life will not be fundamentally different after enlightenment, not that there is some virtue in performing routine chores
koolhead17 7y ago
Be a Stoic.
marble-drink 7y ago
> These are not the only two options. There's a third activity most of us seem to have forgotten - to simply be. Unfortunately, "simply being" if you live in the first world and especially the US is consuming.
latexr 7y ago
> These are not the only two options. There's a third activity most of us seem to have forgotten - to simply be. And that is the conclusion the writer should have arrived at, from their own arguments: > all media is created to be consumed. > I had to start creating. > (…) > What’s evil is passive consumption, in all its forms. If all consumption is evil and all creation is meant to be consumed, then by creating we generate evil. The logical conclusion isn’t to create more than we consume, but to do neither.
- sifar 7y ago
  Perhaps one should create, but not with the goal of consumption. Focus on the act of creation, not the object. I agree, we need to learn how to simply be instead of worrying about how to achieve or get something done.
sifar 7y ago
Thank you for saying this.
ismail 7y ago
Great point. Sometimes I have found that I can be so caught up in the goals or some future desired state that i forget to enjoy the journey.I have to consciously and continuously remind myself of this. Interestingly some believe this focus on goals vs just being, is a function of our schooling system. Kids who grow up without formal schooling , function more in “being” orientation vs “doing” orientation. Personally I Design my life to balance between being and doing. I use a model [0] to map out the important things to me, and review it regularly. https://www.dropbox.com/s/8q5bhuawv1ox101/Balance-template.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/8q5bhuawv1ox101/Balance-template.j...
i_can_c_sharp 7y ago
I envy you. I’ve been trying to hack my brain into a mode similar to what you described for years without success. Just wanted to ask how you did it?
zyngaro 7y ago
Exactly ! I am also starting to question this time dichotomy : work time, play time. As long as you are doing something it’s okay. Of course I don’t consider swiping through an infinite scroll as doing something. There I wrote a comment.
m463 7y ago
Aren't those chores creating order?
MandieD 7y ago
Now that I'm more secure in my career, I find that I do more home/garden maintenance tasks myself rather than frantically trying to find someone to pay do them for me, at a time that works with my frantic schedule. Tiling my kitchen over two weekends was less inconvenient than finding a tile layer who was willing to a) do the job on a day I had home office and b) show me the layout ahead of time so I could make sure they would do it exactly the way I wanted it done. It's also relaxing to do something hard that has nothing to do with my company's DevOps toolchain, where consequences for mistakes only affect me, my husband and our house. Now off to re-plant my front yard with an annual (one-season) clover so it, too, can recover it full productivity after a frantic period of overwork. Sure, I could have spent this Sunday learning enough about Spring to help troubleshoot it, but that's what I have colleagues and existing real work projects for.
thuruv 7y ago
The creative part comes when you keep on doing the job and then you'll creative part kicks in. Dr robust automation to quickly place the dishes. That's what life's made og, IMHO.
nathell 7y ago
Hey ciconia, I wanted to email you to tell you this, but there's no contact info in your `about`. So I'll make this public. I rarely remember the HN articles I read, much less the comments, but today I found myself blaming myself on not doing productive things in my time. Out of memory came this manifesto and this comment of yours, especially the first paragraph. This is something I agree with very deeply, and yet forget about this all too easily: just being has value in and of itself. I want you to know that your words have made a difference, have helped me remember something that's important to me, and I'm grateful for that.
- ciconia 7y ago
  I try practicing what I wrote about. Somedays it goes really well, some days not so much. Being truly aware and present requires not so much learning new habits as discarding with old ones. I'm glad to have sparked something positive in someone else :-)

trevyn 7y ago

I 100% agree, and I think that most people today need more guidance to achieve this than a snapshot of the target state. Always interested in hearing unusual answers as to how we might approach this challenge.

thrav 7y ago

Maintenance is either the one thing everyone forgets in these conversations, or it’s the one thing everyone says no one will want to do. If there were a return to pride in and appreciation of a job well done, there would be no shortage of people willing to do the work, in my mind. The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status.

tkbtkbtkb 7y ago
I assume many people view menial tasks as below them, and it also seems to differ in degree culturally. I'm from the US, and on a recent trip to Japan I noticed a stark difference in the pride and responsibility the average citizen showed in taking good care of even small spaces. It appeared to be an appreciation for the aesthetics of life, no matter the scale. This isn't valued in the same way in America, where anything that isn't the top feels like it's not worth one's time.
- thrav 7y ago
  Yep. I felt the same way in Japan. There appeared to be dignity in certain kinds of work in a way that there is not in the United States, and in most cases this yielded superior results of that work. They do so many foods better than the people who invented them.
jeena 7y ago
I'm not convinced, I think not doing the dishes, not taking out the trash, not sweeping the floor is a demonstration of a low status. That is if you can't afford to pay someone and you still don't do it. People with a clean home have a higher status.
- coldtea 7y ago
  That's beside the point though. You might be considered very low status if you "can't afford to pay someone and you still don't do it", and slightly less low status if you do them yourself. One is lowly and dirty-ass, the other is lowly-and-clean. But not lofty and successful as "I'm all about creating, I have staff to do those things, can't be bothered as my time is precious". To the more well off/elites etc, someone who "can't afford to pay someone" and does those things themselves is still low status. They are not going to get impressed with someone cleaning the house themselves...
  - IggleSniggle 7y ago
    There are many social hierarchies. To the plurality of my own, those that pay someone else to clean up after them and to feed them are of lower moral character and thus lower status. You can be high status and poor, or high status and rich, but the former is easier to achieve. This probably stems from a “it is easier to thread a camel through a needle than for a rich man to find grace” kind of mentality, but also relates to values of self-sufficiency. Nevermind that everyone goes to the grocery and only maintains small vegetable gardens. As someone who likes to make money, I am in a subculture of my immediate social network.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
> The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status. Maybe some people. Not others. N=1. I absolutely don't think maintenance is "low status". I just consider it a waste of human time and resources that interferes with deriving utility and enjoyment from things, but is strictly necessary. It's something to be minimized, both in terms of doing no more than strictly necessary and finding technological solutions to reduce maintenance burdens of products/systems. But when it has to be done it has to be done, I have no problems with it. It has nothing to do with status. Most maintenance work isn't done in front of people, and not doing it at all signals much lower status than doing it. Rich people may do less of it themselves because they can afford to pay someone else to do maintenance tasks.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status. >Maybe some people. Not others.* Well, parent already said "most people", not all. (But even if they haven't said "most", one should assume they allow for exceptions in any general statement in a casual conversation. Unless of course they used the universal quantifier and insisted on "absolutely everybody, no exceptions whatsoever". But I digress). >It has nothing to do with status. Most maintenance work isn't done in front of people It doesn't have to be to be associated with low status though. It's merely enough that it's considered as stopping one from doing the things they think would raise their status (what they "should be doing" that's not beneath them).
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > Well, parent already said "most people", not all. What I meant is, while I can't read minds, "most people" disagrees with the ad-hoc statistical sample of "people I know". What I perceive is people differing in the amount of resistance they have towards doing unwanted things that still need to be done, but I maybe once saw it being considered a status issue. > It's merely enough that it's considered as stopping one from doing the things they think would raise their status (what they "should be doing" that's not beneath them). Do people really think this way? "This task is beneath me", "that other task is not beneath me"? I consider chores to be stopping me from doing things "I should be doing", but it has nothing to do with status; it's just about having better things to do with the time. I hate chores as much now as I hated them in the days I had trouble making ends meet; the only difference is that nowadays I can afford reducing some of them (e.g. I have a dishwasher now, and I can afford a little bit extra to buy something that's easier to clean than the cheapest option). Rich people are able to outsource more. Maybe the picture is backwards? Outsourcing chores is a status signal in the sense that your ability to reduce maintenance burden is correlated to your wealth. That doesn't mean people hate maintenance because of status - what makes this a good status signal in the first place is that chores are a waste of life.
coldtea 7y ago
>If there were a return to pride in and appreciation of a job well done, there would be no shortage of people willing to do the work, in my mind. The reason most people are so unwilling to do these things is because they feel like it is beneath them, and that doing them is a demonstration of their low status. The whole modern economy is based on having them feel low status... People content with their jobs and lives don't consume as much. The whole 1.2 trillion dollar advertising industry (plus tons of non-measured counterparts, e.g. lifestyle articles in magazines, movies etc) is based on promoting unattainable lifestyles as exciting to sell products they associate with them.
koonsolo 7y ago
The problem with maintenance is that you are trying to keep the status quo, and not really improving things permanently. That is the main reason for me that I don't enjoy that work as much, because next week all your effort will be gone again.
- biohax2015 7y ago
  On a long enough timespan, all of our work will be gone anyway.
- johnisgood 7y ago
  All your effort put into, say, eating healthily is not really gone though, is it?
  - koonsolo 7y ago
    True. But if you have kids, all your effort cleaning the kitchen will be gone in a few hours.

benj111 7y ago

Speaking as someone who enjoys cooking, gardening, and yes even washing up, I should be a Zen master right? But I'm not, so there must be something else going on here. I guess it's a combination of both work and play being more consumptive/prescriptive. There's no space to put your own stamp on things. The obvious counter to this is all the what would have been factory workers (in the west) that now seem to have more freedom. To which I would guess that essays complaining about lack of creativity tend to be written by the well off, where as the less well of have other concerns.

kaybe 7y ago
I feel it's also something about the ease you can do things with and your deeper feelings about them. When something is easy to do well because all the supplies are easy to reach, in good order and condition (the joy of a new sponge for dishes!) and there is not too much of it and you don't have to climb around other messes it's nice. We become used to suboptimal situations so quickly, and the bad feelings of stuffiness and annoyance are buried below more immediate issues. Taking an hour or two and identify/remove the pain points can improve the task experience greatly.

jcelerier 7y ago

> Doing the dishes, cooking, gardening, sweeping the floor, putting out the trash. Those are not "chores", that's what life's made of. I mean, I do my chores everyday too but I'd muuuuch rather be playing guitar or reading a book. Don't take any pleasure in cleaning the plates.

johnisgood 7y ago
Yeah, but in the end your environment is now much cleaner. Is not there a feeling of pleasure because of this? So while you may not have a pleasure in the process, you may derive pleasure from the outcome or result.
- Allower 7y ago
  In other words: The accumulated displeasure of a messy cluttered environment and neglected responsibilities will quickly surpass the accumulated displeasure of occasionally doing chores. Realizing this can make doing the chores actually somewhat enjoyable.

Kiro 7y ago

> Doing the dishes, cooking, gardening, sweeping the floor, putting out the trash. Those are not "chores", that's what life's made of. If that's life I may just as well kill myself.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
I feel the same. There's nothing that makes you feel your life is pointless as much as doing chores. Recurring, unending, and unpleasant, all they amount to is treading water. I can't imagine a state of mind where one could find meaning of life in this. It feels a bit similar to finding meaning in death, which I personally consider a large-scale case of Stockholm syndrome.
- slx26 7y ago
  I agree with the feeling, and I want to add a few things to try to help both sides understand. I don't think it's appropriate to say that "life is made of". Admittedly, "life is full of", and if you can enjoy those menial tasks, reach that "zen" level as some say, that's great. In that case it's true that your "life is made of", and if you can enjoy it, much better for you. The less you need to live happy, the easier it's to achieve that happiness. And in fact, most of us could learn a bit of that. Accept that we have to deal with those things, and at least try to not torture ourselves with it, enjoy it as much as possible (even if in some cases it doesn't seem to amount to much). All that being said, I think it's also easy to lose perspective when you manage to achieve a certain degree of happiness or comfortability through that kind of routine, or when you deeply believe in that idea. In particular, I believe that's a state that not everyone can reach, and I doubt it's a matter of being trained enough or trying hard enough. Some people just have a natural need to create, or explore, or need to actively fight and try to change the world they live in, or whatever. Sometimes, that comes from inside, in the same way as hunger, or your need to sleep. This probably sounds hyperbolic. For most people, it probably is. But this is the kind of issue that you can only really understand if you personally live it, because it is a psychological need, and that's very hard to communicate to others who don't feel the same way. In conclusion: I absolutely believe those who say that they find meaning in a life like this. I actually think that most people can find meaning in a life like this, and I believe the social factor is the most relevant for most people's happiness. But I also believe there's a lot of people who can't find meaning in a life like this, as much as they try, because they have other needs, and trying to supress them it's not only unreasonable, but a nice attempt at torture. I can understand the people that says that they would rather kill themselves. Hopefully this adds a bit more context.

daseiner1 7y ago

before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. after enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.

opportune 7y ago
I am pretty sure the meaning of that saying is that the structure of your life will not be fundamentally different after enlightenment, not that there is some virtue in performing routine chores

koolhead17 7y ago

Be a Stoic.

marble-drink 7y ago

> These are not the only two options. There's a third activity most of us seem to have forgotten - to simply be. Unfortunately, "simply being" if you live in the first world and especially the US is consuming.

latexr 7y ago

> These are not the only two options. There's a third activity most of us seem to have forgotten - to simply be. And that is the conclusion the writer should have arrived at, from their own arguments: > all media is created to be consumed. > I had to start creating. > (…) > What’s evil is passive consumption, in all its forms. If all consumption is evil and all creation is meant to be consumed, then by creating we generate evil. The logical conclusion isn’t to create more than we consume, but to do neither.

sifar 7y ago
Perhaps one should create, but not with the goal of consumption. Focus on the act of creation, not the object. I agree, we need to learn how to simply be instead of worrying about how to achieve or get something done.

sifar 7y ago

Thank you for saying this.

ismail 7y ago

Great point. Sometimes I have found that I can be so caught up in the goals or some future desired state that i forget to enjoy the journey.I have to consciously and continuously remind myself of this. Interestingly some believe this focus on goals vs just being, is a function of our schooling system. Kids who grow up without formal schooling , function more in “being” orientation vs “doing” orientation. Personally I Design my life to balance between being and doing. I use a model [0] to map out the important things to me, and review it regularly. https://www.dropbox.com/s/8q5bhuawv1ox101/Balance-template.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/8q5bhuawv1ox101/Balance-template.j...

i_can_c_sharp 7y ago

I envy you. I’ve been trying to hack my brain into a mode similar to what you described for years without success. Just wanted to ask how you did it?

zyngaro 7y ago

Exactly ! I am also starting to question this time dichotomy : work time, play time. As long as you are doing something it’s okay. Of course I don’t consider swiping through an infinite scroll as doing something. There I wrote a comment.

m463 7y ago

Aren't those chores creating order?

MandieD 7y ago

Now that I'm more secure in my career, I find that I do more home/garden maintenance tasks myself rather than frantically trying to find someone to pay do them for me, at a time that works with my frantic schedule. Tiling my kitchen over two weekends was less inconvenient than finding a tile layer who was willing to a) do the job on a day I had home office and b) show me the layout ahead of time so I could make sure they would do it exactly the way I wanted it done. It's also relaxing to do something hard that has nothing to do with my company's DevOps toolchain, where consequences for mistakes only affect me, my husband and our house. Now off to re-plant my front yard with an annual (one-season) clover so it, too, can recover it full productivity after a frantic period of overwork. Sure, I could have spent this Sunday learning enough about Spring to help troubleshoot it, but that's what I have colleagues and existing real work projects for.

thuruv 7y ago

The creative part comes when you keep on doing the job and then you'll creative part kicks in. Dr robust automation to quickly place the dishes. That's what life's made og, IMHO.

nathell 7y ago

Hey ciconia, I wanted to email you to tell you this, but there's no contact info in your `about`. So I'll make this public. I rarely remember the HN articles I read, much less the comments, but today I found myself blaming myself on not doing productive things in my time. Out of memory came this manifesto and this comment of yours, especially the first paragraph. This is something I agree with very deeply, and yet forget about this all too easily: just being has value in and of itself. I want you to know that your words have made a difference, have helped me remember something that's important to me, and I'm grateful for that.

ciconia 7y ago
I try practicing what I wrote about. Somedays it goes really well, some days not so much. Being truly aware and present requires not so much learning new habits as discarding with old ones. I'm glad to have sparked something positive in someone else :-)