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I'm guessing that if this really is associated with vaping then it's likely due to the limited regulation of the ingredients. Bad batch of VG/PG/nicotine? Som

I'm guessing that if this really is associated with vaping then it's likely due to the limited regulation of the ingredients. Bad batch of VG/PG/nicotine? Some problematic flavouring? I think the best article I've found is at the BMJ: https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5228 https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5228 - sorry, paywall. Very much inconslusive at the moment completely in the public health triage stage. Good idea to regulate it properly. I just stopped vaping after a 20 year intermittent tobacco problem + 5 years of vaping[1]. Stopping vaping is massively easier than giving up cigarettes in my experience. [1] for almost that entire time I just went unflavoured. Less hassle and less potential for contaminants.

chrstphrhrt 7y ago
I wish it were easier to distinguish vaping dry flower from liquids. They aren’t the same but I hate calling my pax a vape for some reason.
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  IQos is calling it "heeting". Yeah, I don't see that taking off. Vape is just a pretty slick word, as words go. It's got everything! Unusual consonants, primates, rhymes with cape... It's gonna be hard to beat.
imafish 7y ago
Similar story here. Smoked for ten years. Actually found it easy to replace smoking with vaping (strong menthol). Stopped vaping after 1 year because I was suffering from GERD and suspected that vaping was an attributing factor. Since I stopped 5 years ago, my GERD symptoms have more or less disappeared. I really enjoyed vaping, probably more than smoking, but somehow it did not seem to have the same addictive effect on me as smoking had. I did not find it that hard to stop cold turkey.
- singingfish 7y ago
  I stuck with it for 5 years because I was paranoid about relapse to cigarettes. Spent a couple of weeks in countries where vaping is illegal as a dry run, earlier this year, and then just waited for the juice to run out. The addictive effect of nicotine seems much enhanced by the addition of a monoamine oxidase compound (ie related to the early antidepressant drugs) - which is present in burning tobacco - which seems to take nicotine from approximately as addictive as caffeine to more addictive than heroin (citation available).
  - exabrial 7y ago
    Not trying to call you out, but would you mind sharing? That coincides generally with what I've read.
    - singingfish 7y ago
      there's references elsewhere on this thread.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- afterburner 7y ago
  Is it possible vaping did not suppress your appetite like smoking did, and so your stomach created more digestive acids, but you didn't eat more because of habit?
  - awinder 7y ago
    GERD/nicotine has a pretty strong link and it’s cumulative/long-term exposure that increases chances. Probably just a ticking time bomb that went off ;-). (No offense to the parent poster intended, I likewise have played games with this same time bomb multiple times now)
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  > somehow it did not seem to have the same addictive effect on me as smoking had Nicotine by itself isn't much addictive until mixed with stuff called MAOIs. Here's an earlier post of mine that gives a bit more detail https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20536162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20536162
  - jumpywizard 7y ago
    Snus addicts in Sweden seem to counteract the idea that MAOIs have such a big role.
    - tempguy9999 7y ago
      snus is tobacco. Tobacco contains MAOIs along with nicotine. Maybe you were complaining that the reference referred to tobacco smoke, but it's reasonable to suppose (though granted, not established) that powdered baccy does as well. Having used chewing tobacco, I can say it's got a hell of a kick more than plain nicotine tablets.
noname120 7y ago
Monoamine oxidase inhibitors [1] which are present in cigarettes seem to greatly contribute to the nicotine addictiveness. See this literature review from Gwern for more information. [2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor [2] https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness
- DanBC 7y ago
  How is gwern eliminating their own bias?
  - nyolfen 7y ago
    it’s a compilation of links to academic studies
zamalek 7y ago
I read about this a few days ago before deaths. All of the cases at that point involved THC.
WillPostForFood 7y ago
This article has a sentence touching on it, but other sources that almost all these cases of vaping related hospitalizations are from vaping THC, so the sourcing/manufacturing of the product is highly suspect. Who knows what drug dealers are using.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  iirc THC was being used by a number of people affected, but they haven't yet gone as far as saying that "almost all these cases of vaping related hospitalizations are from vaping THC".
  - WillPostForFood 7y ago
    You are right, the national stories say many are THC, not most or all. I was conflating it with a local California story, where in Kings county where 8 people were hospitalized, and all had been tied to CBD oil: The Kings County Department of Public Health, in rural central California, said it identified eight patients between ages 18 and 60 who developed lung illness after vaping products with CBD oils they had bought from unlicensed vendors.
- otakucode 7y ago
  It bothers me greatly to read so many news stories that have conspicuous absences of factual information. If there was a legitimately dangerous product on the market it would be critically important to share exactly what products, brands, etc are affected in what regions. Imagine if we woke up to news stories saying eggs were contaminated by salmonella. And nothing else. Just a blanket fearmongering piece about eggs across the board with no mention of which producer in which region was affected, no information about what timespan the affected eggs were purchased in, nothing. Just 'people are getting sick from eggs and doctors cant guarantee you aren't next!'
  - qes 7y ago
    > Just a blanket fearmongering piece Nailed it.
EdwardDiego 7y ago
From what I understand, some vaping liquids contain diacetyl, the culprit in "popcorn lung".
- otakucode 7y ago
  Your understanding is wrong. Cheap vape liquid from dodgy sources years ago used diacetyl. This was quickly discovered and vapers stopped purchasing it and it immediately became prominently listed on pretty much all products what proportion of vegetable glycerin and/or propylene glycol is being used and that those are the only ingredients aside from nicotine and flavoring. If anyone is still using diacetyl they are probably dodgy gas station disposables from China.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    > Your understanding is wrong. According to vape vendors in my country, it's not. https://vapourium.nz/blogs/vaping-101/whats-the-story-with-diacetyl https://vapourium.nz/blogs/vaping-101/whats-the-story-with-d... "Diketones such as diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl are present in a number of these flavourings as they add an authentic buttery and creamy taste to the e-liquids produced by many manufacturers."
  - asveikau 7y ago
    They said "some". Your comment refers to the possibility that some may still, as in the gas station. That fits the criteria for "some". The idea that conscious consumers reading ingredient labels will solve 100% of such a problem is also kind of silly. Look at the obesity problem as an example of how well labeling works - it's possible to read the labels and be careful about your food intake, but most do not.
- nyolfen 7y ago
  diacetyl is present in cigarettes at 700x the level of any vaping liquid containing it[1]; besides that there is no actual documented case of a vaper (or smoker) developing popcorn lung; afaik this has only happened to some employees at a popcorn factory. as others in the thread have mentioned, almost all juice manufacturers moved away from using diacetyl after this scare arose a few years ago. [1] https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/12/new-study-finds-that-average-diacetyl.html?m=1 https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/12/new-study-finds...

chrstphrhrt 7y ago

I wish it were easier to distinguish vaping dry flower from liquids. They aren’t the same but I hate calling my pax a vape for some reason.

dr_dshiv 7y ago
IQos is calling it "heeting". Yeah, I don't see that taking off. Vape is just a pretty slick word, as words go. It's got everything! Unusual consonants, primates, rhymes with cape... It's gonna be hard to beat.

imafish 7y ago

Similar story here. Smoked for ten years. Actually found it easy to replace smoking with vaping (strong menthol). Stopped vaping after 1 year because I was suffering from GERD and suspected that vaping was an attributing factor. Since I stopped 5 years ago, my GERD symptoms have more or less disappeared. I really enjoyed vaping, probably more than smoking, but somehow it did not seem to have the same addictive effect on me as smoking had. I did not find it that hard to stop cold turkey.

singingfish 7y ago
I stuck with it for 5 years because I was paranoid about relapse to cigarettes. Spent a couple of weeks in countries where vaping is illegal as a dry run, earlier this year, and then just waited for the juice to run out. The addictive effect of nicotine seems much enhanced by the addition of a monoamine oxidase compound (ie related to the early antidepressant drugs) - which is present in burning tobacco - which seems to take nicotine from approximately as addictive as caffeine to more addictive than heroin (citation available).
- exabrial 7y ago
  Not trying to call you out, but would you mind sharing? That coincides generally with what I've read.
  - singingfish 7y ago
    there's references elsewhere on this thread.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
afterburner 7y ago
Is it possible vaping did not suppress your appetite like smoking did, and so your stomach created more digestive acids, but you didn't eat more because of habit?
- awinder 7y ago
  GERD/nicotine has a pretty strong link and it’s cumulative/long-term exposure that increases chances. Probably just a ticking time bomb that went off ;-). (No offense to the parent poster intended, I likewise have played games with this same time bomb multiple times now)
tempguy9999 7y ago
> somehow it did not seem to have the same addictive effect on me as smoking had Nicotine by itself isn't much addictive until mixed with stuff called MAOIs. Here's an earlier post of mine that gives a bit more detail https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20536162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20536162
- jumpywizard 7y ago
  Snus addicts in Sweden seem to counteract the idea that MAOIs have such a big role.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    snus is tobacco. Tobacco contains MAOIs along with nicotine. Maybe you were complaining that the reference referred to tobacco smoke, but it's reasonable to suppose (though granted, not established) that powdered baccy does as well. Having used chewing tobacco, I can say it's got a hell of a kick more than plain nicotine tablets.

noname120 7y ago

Monoamine oxidase inhibitors [1] which are present in cigarettes seem to greatly contribute to the nicotine addictiveness. See this literature review from Gwern for more information. [2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor [2] https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness

DanBC 7y ago
How is gwern eliminating their own bias?
- nyolfen 7y ago
  it’s a compilation of links to academic studies

zamalek 7y ago

I read about this a few days ago before deaths. All of the cases at that point involved THC.

WillPostForFood 7y ago

This article has a sentence touching on it, but other sources that almost all these cases of vaping related hospitalizations are from vaping THC, so the sourcing/manufacturing of the product is highly suspect. Who knows what drug dealers are using.

EpicEng 7y ago
iirc THC was being used by a number of people affected, but they haven't yet gone as far as saying that "almost all these cases of vaping related hospitalizations are from vaping THC".
- WillPostForFood 7y ago
  You are right, the national stories say many are THC, not most or all. I was conflating it with a local California story, where in Kings county where 8 people were hospitalized, and all had been tied to CBD oil: The Kings County Department of Public Health, in rural central California, said it identified eight patients between ages 18 and 60 who developed lung illness after vaping products with CBD oils they had bought from unlicensed vendors.
otakucode 7y ago
It bothers me greatly to read so many news stories that have conspicuous absences of factual information. If there was a legitimately dangerous product on the market it would be critically important to share exactly what products, brands, etc are affected in what regions. Imagine if we woke up to news stories saying eggs were contaminated by salmonella. And nothing else. Just a blanket fearmongering piece about eggs across the board with no mention of which producer in which region was affected, no information about what timespan the affected eggs were purchased in, nothing. Just 'people are getting sick from eggs and doctors cant guarantee you aren't next!'
- qes 7y ago
  > Just a blanket fearmongering piece Nailed it.

EdwardDiego 7y ago

From what I understand, some vaping liquids contain diacetyl, the culprit in "popcorn lung".

otakucode 7y ago
Your understanding is wrong. Cheap vape liquid from dodgy sources years ago used diacetyl. This was quickly discovered and vapers stopped purchasing it and it immediately became prominently listed on pretty much all products what proportion of vegetable glycerin and/or propylene glycol is being used and that those are the only ingredients aside from nicotine and flavoring. If anyone is still using diacetyl they are probably dodgy gas station disposables from China.
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  > Your understanding is wrong. According to vape vendors in my country, it's not. https://vapourium.nz/blogs/vaping-101/whats-the-story-with-diacetyl https://vapourium.nz/blogs/vaping-101/whats-the-story-with-d... "Diketones such as diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl are present in a number of these flavourings as they add an authentic buttery and creamy taste to the e-liquids produced by many manufacturers."
- asveikau 7y ago
  They said "some". Your comment refers to the possibility that some may still, as in the gas station. That fits the criteria for "some". The idea that conscious consumers reading ingredient labels will solve 100% of such a problem is also kind of silly. Look at the obesity problem as an example of how well labeling works - it's possible to read the labels and be careful about your food intake, but most do not.
nyolfen 7y ago
diacetyl is present in cigarettes at 700x the level of any vaping liquid containing it[1]; besides that there is no actual documented case of a vaper (or smoker) developing popcorn lung; afaik this has only happened to some employees at a popcorn factory. as others in the thread have mentioned, almost all juice manufacturers moved away from using diacetyl after this scare arose a few years ago. [1] https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/12/new-study-finds-that-average-diacetyl.html?m=1 https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/12/new-study-finds...