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> People want to go about their day and get groceries without being hit on I'm not sure this is always the case. I feel like many of my women friends would pre

> People want to go about their day and get groceries without being hit on I'm not sure this is always the case. I feel like many of my women friends would prefer to meet someone offline but they do not always get many inbounds so they use online dating. I feel like there's a clear edge for men who ask women out in person because less people are doing so. Further to this, apps like Tinder are good at showing off looks but not necessarily status. This works great for good looking women but not men who need to convey gravitas/worth in order to attract women. This is based on the theory that men are 'success' objects. I think this is something that is more easily done offline.

MaximumYComb 7y ago
The issue is that, as a single man, how do I know which of the 30 women I bump into during a day are open to being hit on and which will feel annoyed? Some may prefer to be hit on but I'm going to annoy a lot of women in the process. Far easier to use an opt in dating app
- ebg13 7y ago
  > Far easier Easier isn't the right metric. It's far less selfishly obnoxious to the world to not actively harass random people just in case one of them might be ok with it.
- EliRivers 7y ago
  how do I know which of the 30 women I bump into during a day are open to being hit on and which will feel annoyed? In effect, you ask them. However, this is not done in the literalist HN style - that is, you do not say "Hi, may I please hit on you?" or any other such set of words. Nonetheless, one asks, and some will say yes, and some will say no; some will know they're answering, some won't even notice, and sometimes the asker doesn't even notice that they're asking. To a number of people, this sounds crazy. As crazy as the idea that some authors cannot be read literally to get the meaning of their words. There are languages encoded within language and this is one such. If one happens not to speak this language, I guess it's dating apps or nothing :/
  - MaximumYComb 7y ago
    The problem is in the asking. If I see an attractive woman shopping and go speak to her it may be the 10th time she's been stopped in this one trip. There is so many aspects to this, it's impossible to reasonably discuss it on an online forum. My perspective is living in a major western city that has a lot of culturally middle eastern people living here. The culture is very forward compared to western white culture. Women I know complain about it all the time. A woman living in an area without this culture may wish more men would hit on her.
    - aisofteng 7y ago
      >The problem is in the asking. If I see an attractive woman shopping and go speak to her it may be the 10th time she's been stopped in this one trip. So what? Do people really rule out meeting a partner and having a family because of a fear of maybe inconveniencing someone?
      - MaximumYComb 7y ago
        How did you take "rule out meeting a partner and having a family" from what I said? Dating in 2019 is really easy when I have free time I can line up multiple dates per week without having to resort to harassing every attractive woman I pass at the grocery store.
        feministincel 7y ago
        ...how? I only recently started getting more than 1 match a week and that was probably an ELO reset.
      - nrb 7y ago
        It’s not out of “fear of maybe inconveniencing someone”, it’s out of a sense of common courtesy. There are plenty of social events that are appropriate for this sort of interaction. Running errands or just trying to go about your day is not one of those IMO, and if dozens of people accosted you per day you’d probably feel the same way.
- wendyshu 7y ago
  Start by being friendly and subtle, gauge feedback, then escalate a bit or don't. If she doesn't play along, that's fine you were just being social. Keep it respectful and light. This is expected, normal, and natural. It takes practice. I'm not saying it's easy I'm just saying how it's done.
  - MaximumYComb 7y ago
    I know how to flirt, the issue is a lot of women don't want guys flirting with them constantly. In another reply, I mentioned how the demographics of my city have a lot of men from a middle eastern background. Their culture is much more forward and the women I know in my life complain about getting constantly hit on. This isn't an issue of me being socially incompetent, it's about me trying to be a decent human and not annoy women who are constantly being annoyed. Likewise, I don't want to hit on women in a workplace setting because I feel that people should be able to come to work without being made to feel uncomfortable. Some women may like it but some will feel uncomfortable and it's the latter group I'm being respectful towards. My policies mean I probably sleep with fewer women than I could but dating in 2019 is already stupidly easy.
    - solotronics 7y ago
      From what I can tell the perceived value of a guy impacts the reaction of him hitting on a girl. If your read the tinder statistics middle eastern guys have it harder (seen as lower socially). If you're a successful rich good looking guy girls will love your attention. It seems primitive but hey were just animals at the end of the day.
    - danenania 7y ago
      [deleted]
      - shahbaby 7y ago
        And this is how men turn into orbiters. You carefully calibrate your approach while she sleeps around with much better looking men who don't need to. It's pretty sad.
- wendyshu 7y ago
  To reply to your nested comment: Often the initial stage in flirting if done right should not be annoying, no matter what her recent experiences with guys were. Think "passing a comment about the weather in the checkout line" not "going up to someone and saying you like their shirt".
  - bfung 7y ago
    “Excuse me, that spicy pasta sauce (in their basket), have you tried it before, what do you think?” If no reply, move on. If they answer sheepishly, don’t be annoying. If they react with enthusiasm... “I love spicy”. Escalate. @wendyshu - I feel ya trying to explain nuanced things to a crowd who take things very, literally, but good job. Sorry, bored on a flight.
    - MaximumYComb 7y ago
      From your perspective, you're only asking her once so it's no big deal. From her perspective, she's had 10 guys try it today and it happens often when she's shopping.
      - wendyshu 7y ago
        You're underestimating the ability of women to artfully handle the interaction. You're overestimating the amount of attention they get. You're trying to avoid taking any personal risk. Here, try this: Say something funny. No one's bothered if they laugh.
    - yhoneycomb 7y ago
      Exactly. It's just weak men find any excuse to avoid actually putting themselves out there, and would rather post online about how women are all terrible.
- Blackstone4 7y ago
  Starting with a negative premise will more likely end in a negative outcome.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- im3w1l 7y ago
  The traditional solution is to look if there is a ring.
- AntarNaad 7y ago
  Ring. Marriage or Engagement ring
wendyshu 7y ago
And even for evaluating someone's looks a couple of photos can be less than perfectly informative.
baron816 7y ago
Yeah, they just don’t want people they’re not attracted to hitting on them in public. Actually, I don’t think anyone wants someone they’re not attracted to hitting on them at any time.
- Blackstone4 7y ago
  I believe that men can manage their image and make themselves attractive to women. If a man believes they are worth speaking to and are attractive, it goes a long way with a women. If my starting base is "women just don’t want people they’re not attracted to hitting on them in public", then it's would mean that I start from a weak position. I feel like that mentally basically says "I am not attractive and women do not want to speak to me". People can sense this and find it unattractive.
langitbiru 7y ago
I agree with you but... Maybe we need a guideline on which places it is okay to hit on women? Groceries? Tech conferences? Cafe? Yoga classes? I remember I read complaints from women on Twitter who were hit on by guys in tech conferences. They felt they were being devalued there. Even a senior personality (a man) in tech world had to intervene, "Hey, it is not okay to hit on women in tech conferences." On the other side, my female friend told me that she is okay if guys hit on her in yoga classes. So I don't know the answer to this perplexing question. Should we categorize places/events into don't-hit-on-women / okay-hit-on-women?
- shahbaby 7y ago
  If the guy is handsome then it's flirting. If the guy is ugly then he's a creep.
- wendyshu 7y ago
  I think at tech conferences it's less welcome because it's a professional environment. There are many reasons why it's hard to mix relationships and work.
gingabriska 7y ago
My female friends complain they are hit on by taxi drivers or waiters and acknowledged that sometimes they've reacted pretty badly to their advances and based on what i gathered from their talks, they want a financially well off guy who looks average or slightly better but these are women in their 30s. While I've some other female friends much younger, they've acknowledged they've rediculed or even got restraining order against few guys who looked bad and their approach came across as hostile based on their looks not behaviour. They often tell me that guys chasing money and career are pretty boring to them and they want more adventurous guys who doesn't care much about money. In short, what I've understood they want very good looking men. Tho I am from East Asia but I look middle eastern and girls told me I look pretty evil and terrorist. And most girls I been with only liked blonde with blue eye dude with long hair. And money didn't even make it easy for me to attract good girls who want long term relationship. I did attract the ones who I didn't want to attract and it caused me a lot of problem in life but nevermind, I've moved on and now I've a stable relationship.

MaximumYComb 7y ago

The issue is that, as a single man, how do I know which of the 30 women I bump into during a day are open to being hit on and which will feel annoyed? Some may prefer to be hit on but I'm going to annoy a lot of women in the process. Far easier to use an opt in dating app

ebg13 7y ago
> Far easier Easier isn't the right metric. It's far less selfishly obnoxious to the world to not actively harass random people just in case one of them might be ok with it.
EliRivers 7y ago
how do I know which of the 30 women I bump into during a day are open to being hit on and which will feel annoyed? In effect, you ask them. However, this is not done in the literalist HN style - that is, you do not say "Hi, may I please hit on you?" or any other such set of words. Nonetheless, one asks, and some will say yes, and some will say no; some will know they're answering, some won't even notice, and sometimes the asker doesn't even notice that they're asking. To a number of people, this sounds crazy. As crazy as the idea that some authors cannot be read literally to get the meaning of their words. There are languages encoded within language and this is one such. If one happens not to speak this language, I guess it's dating apps or nothing :/
- MaximumYComb 7y ago
  The problem is in the asking. If I see an attractive woman shopping and go speak to her it may be the 10th time she's been stopped in this one trip. There is so many aspects to this, it's impossible to reasonably discuss it on an online forum. My perspective is living in a major western city that has a lot of culturally middle eastern people living here. The culture is very forward compared to western white culture. Women I know complain about it all the time. A woman living in an area without this culture may wish more men would hit on her.
  - aisofteng 7y ago
    >The problem is in the asking. If I see an attractive woman shopping and go speak to her it may be the 10th time she's been stopped in this one trip. So what? Do people really rule out meeting a partner and having a family because of a fear of maybe inconveniencing someone?
    - MaximumYComb 7y ago
      How did you take "rule out meeting a partner and having a family" from what I said? Dating in 2019 is really easy when I have free time I can line up multiple dates per week without having to resort to harassing every attractive woman I pass at the grocery store.
      - feministincel 7y ago
        ...how? I only recently started getting more than 1 match a week and that was probably an ELO reset.
    - nrb 7y ago
      It’s not out of “fear of maybe inconveniencing someone”, it’s out of a sense of common courtesy. There are plenty of social events that are appropriate for this sort of interaction. Running errands or just trying to go about your day is not one of those IMO, and if dozens of people accosted you per day you’d probably feel the same way.
wendyshu 7y ago
Start by being friendly and subtle, gauge feedback, then escalate a bit or don't. If she doesn't play along, that's fine you were just being social. Keep it respectful and light. This is expected, normal, and natural. It takes practice. I'm not saying it's easy I'm just saying how it's done.
- MaximumYComb 7y ago
  I know how to flirt, the issue is a lot of women don't want guys flirting with them constantly. In another reply, I mentioned how the demographics of my city have a lot of men from a middle eastern background. Their culture is much more forward and the women I know in my life complain about getting constantly hit on. This isn't an issue of me being socially incompetent, it's about me trying to be a decent human and not annoy women who are constantly being annoyed. Likewise, I don't want to hit on women in a workplace setting because I feel that people should be able to come to work without being made to feel uncomfortable. Some women may like it but some will feel uncomfortable and it's the latter group I'm being respectful towards. My policies mean I probably sleep with fewer women than I could but dating in 2019 is already stupidly easy.
  - solotronics 7y ago
    From what I can tell the perceived value of a guy impacts the reaction of him hitting on a girl. If your read the tinder statistics middle eastern guys have it harder (seen as lower socially). If you're a successful rich good looking guy girls will love your attention. It seems primitive but hey were just animals at the end of the day.
  - danenania 7y ago
    [deleted]
    - shahbaby 7y ago
      And this is how men turn into orbiters. You carefully calibrate your approach while she sleeps around with much better looking men who don't need to. It's pretty sad.
wendyshu 7y ago
To reply to your nested comment: Often the initial stage in flirting if done right should not be annoying, no matter what her recent experiences with guys were. Think "passing a comment about the weather in the checkout line" not "going up to someone and saying you like their shirt".
- bfung 7y ago
  “Excuse me, that spicy pasta sauce (in their basket), have you tried it before, what do you think?” If no reply, move on. If they answer sheepishly, don’t be annoying. If they react with enthusiasm... “I love spicy”. Escalate. @wendyshu - I feel ya trying to explain nuanced things to a crowd who take things very, literally, but good job. Sorry, bored on a flight.
  - MaximumYComb 7y ago
    From your perspective, you're only asking her once so it's no big deal. From her perspective, she's had 10 guys try it today and it happens often when she's shopping.
    - wendyshu 7y ago
      You're underestimating the ability of women to artfully handle the interaction. You're overestimating the amount of attention they get. You're trying to avoid taking any personal risk. Here, try this: Say something funny. No one's bothered if they laugh.
  - yhoneycomb 7y ago
    Exactly. It's just weak men find any excuse to avoid actually putting themselves out there, and would rather post online about how women are all terrible.
Blackstone4 7y ago
Starting with a negative premise will more likely end in a negative outcome.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
im3w1l 7y ago
The traditional solution is to look if there is a ring.
AntarNaad 7y ago
Ring. Marriage or Engagement ring

wendyshu 7y ago

And even for evaluating someone's looks a couple of photos can be less than perfectly informative.

baron816 7y ago

Yeah, they just don’t want people they’re not attracted to hitting on them in public. Actually, I don’t think anyone wants someone they’re not attracted to hitting on them at any time.

Blackstone4 7y ago
I believe that men can manage their image and make themselves attractive to women. If a man believes they are worth speaking to and are attractive, it goes a long way with a women. If my starting base is "women just don’t want people they’re not attracted to hitting on them in public", then it's would mean that I start from a weak position. I feel like that mentally basically says "I am not attractive and women do not want to speak to me". People can sense this and find it unattractive.

langitbiru 7y ago

I agree with you but... Maybe we need a guideline on which places it is okay to hit on women? Groceries? Tech conferences? Cafe? Yoga classes? I remember I read complaints from women on Twitter who were hit on by guys in tech conferences. They felt they were being devalued there. Even a senior personality (a man) in tech world had to intervene, "Hey, it is not okay to hit on women in tech conferences." On the other side, my female friend told me that she is okay if guys hit on her in yoga classes. So I don't know the answer to this perplexing question. Should we categorize places/events into don't-hit-on-women / okay-hit-on-women?

shahbaby 7y ago
If the guy is handsome then it's flirting. If the guy is ugly then he's a creep.
wendyshu 7y ago
I think at tech conferences it's less welcome because it's a professional environment. There are many reasons why it's hard to mix relationships and work.

gingabriska 7y ago

My female friends complain they are hit on by taxi drivers or waiters and acknowledged that sometimes they've reacted pretty badly to their advances and based on what i gathered from their talks, they want a financially well off guy who looks average or slightly better but these are women in their 30s. While I've some other female friends much younger, they've acknowledged they've rediculed or even got restraining order against few guys who looked bad and their approach came across as hostile based on their looks not behaviour. They often tell me that guys chasing money and career are pretty boring to them and they want more adventurous guys who doesn't care much about money. In short, what I've understood they want very good looking men. Tho I am from East Asia but I look middle eastern and girls told me I look pretty evil and terrorist. And most girls I been with only liked blonde with blue eye dude with long hair. And money didn't even make it easy for me to attract good girls who want long term relationship. I did attract the ones who I didn't want to attract and it caused me a lot of problem in life but nevermind, I've moved on and now I've a stable relationship.