4 ms·

Its worth noting my colleagues and I have very different political views when we talk over lunch but I find it very insightful to see different views and we are

Its worth noting my colleagues and I have very different political views when we talk over lunch but I find it very insightful to see different views and we are all on good terms over it all. And I think we do think about eachother's views and we do try to build common ground, so frankly I find it healthy.

jdm2212 7y ago
The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. There's a lot more potential for deep disagreement in the US when people talk politics.
- TheGRS 7y ago
  I'm American and I've had plenty of political discussions on polar opposite political sides at work or with colleagues at a bar or wherever. There's two lines that should not be crossed: the obvious one is threatening someone's job due to politics, but the more nuanced one is mistrusting someone professionally based on their political affiliation or opinions. I suspect some on this discussion are also conflating political discussion at work with this incident: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/07/business/google-women-engineer-fired-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/07/business/google-women-eng... Sure, it's "political", but more importantly it's discriminatory and therefore unacceptable on many other levels.
  - jlawson 7y ago
    What part of Damore's memo do you think was 'discriminatory' in an 'unacceptable' way? Please be specific, because this is into bizarro-world territory from my point of view. I read it and saw an attempt at proposing policies to increase female representation based on a collection of science papers about differences in behavior between men and women.
- einhverfr 7y ago
  >The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. There's a lot more potential for deep disagreement in the US when people talk politics. Ummmm.... The entire American political spectrum fits in the center-right of most European countries' political spectrums. When was the last time you saw a political discussion between a Socialist, a Social Democrat, and an old-school Christian Democrat? Here's how I describe American politics to Europeans: In the US we have two political parties. We have the Democrats which you know as the Liberal party. And then we have the Republicans which you know as the Liberal party. Yes, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama would be in the same party in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, etc.
  - lagadu 7y ago
    > Yes, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama would be in the same party in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. You're getting downvoted but I'd like to register that I agree with you: they'd both be social-democrats, sitting on the center-right in my opinion :)
  - astura 7y ago
    >Yes, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama would be in the same party in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. Not surprising at all, Romney and Obama were so similar I didn't bother voting in the 2012 election. https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012 https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
  - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
    Then there's Trump, who would be in one of the newer right-wing populist parties, and the religious fundamentalists who wouldn't fit into any party in most European countries.
    - einhverfr 7y ago
      In policy matters, Trump would still be in Liberal. He isn't threatening to ban importing tropical fruit for example, and he is far more hostile to the idea of a safety net than is the Danish People's Party.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. It has both fewer signficant dimensions and narrower range on those dimensions; it's much smaller, not bigger. Also centered further to the right, on the left-right axis that is the most significant axis of variation in the US; the whole range on that axis with any substantive representation in the US is about center-left to the solid right.
  - einhverfr 7y ago
    Elizabeth Warren would be center-right in Europe. Bernie might be center-left depending on country.
- anbotero 7y ago
  The problem is not the spectrum, I believe, it’s the people. People, for some reason, specially educated ones, cannot handle disagreement. My country had a Red & Blue battle that lasted years, where each party would kill members of the other party. At least now there are more parties and candidates you can align with, but I still think parties are the most stupid thing ever: You will never agree a 100% in everything (and if you do, you’re really weird or probably devoid of criterion), so what’s the point? Deep disagreement comes from passionate people, not from any political spectrum. If you cannot keep your passions somewhat in check, you’re just a time bomb.
  - einhverfr 7y ago
    And what happens when you have a global company setting itself up as the gatekeeper of information and of ranking information by truth value? What of such disagreements then?
- lagadu 7y ago
  "Bigger"? You guys have two parties, one of which is right/far-right and the other is just regular center/right. Parties on most countries on our side of the pond generally range between fascist and communist with at least half a dozen more in between those, not to mention that each differs in other axii too, like the level of cosmopolitanism.
Tempest1981 7y ago
I think that can work for a small group at lunch, and it's great to see. The problems begin on large faceless email/message groups, where the dynamic is less personal.

jdm2212 7y ago

The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. There's a lot more potential for deep disagreement in the US when people talk politics.

TheGRS 7y ago
I'm American and I've had plenty of political discussions on polar opposite political sides at work or with colleagues at a bar or wherever. There's two lines that should not be crossed: the obvious one is threatening someone's job due to politics, but the more nuanced one is mistrusting someone professionally based on their political affiliation or opinions. I suspect some on this discussion are also conflating political discussion at work with this incident: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/07/business/google-women-engineer-fired-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/07/business/google-women-eng... Sure, it's "political", but more importantly it's discriminatory and therefore unacceptable on many other levels.
- jlawson 7y ago
  What part of Damore's memo do you think was 'discriminatory' in an 'unacceptable' way? Please be specific, because this is into bizarro-world territory from my point of view. I read it and saw an attempt at proposing policies to increase female representation based on a collection of science papers about differences in behavior between men and women.
einhverfr 7y ago
>The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. There's a lot more potential for deep disagreement in the US when people talk politics. Ummmm.... The entire American political spectrum fits in the center-right of most European countries' political spectrums. When was the last time you saw a political discussion between a Socialist, a Social Democrat, and an old-school Christian Democrat? Here's how I describe American politics to Europeans: In the US we have two political parties. We have the Democrats which you know as the Liberal party. And then we have the Republicans which you know as the Liberal party. Yes, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama would be in the same party in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, etc.
- lagadu 7y ago
  > Yes, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama would be in the same party in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. You're getting downvoted but I'd like to register that I agree with you: they'd both be social-democrats, sitting on the center-right in my opinion :)
- astura 7y ago
  >Yes, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama would be in the same party in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, etc. Not surprising at all, Romney and Obama were so similar I didn't bother voting in the 2012 election. https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012 https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  Then there's Trump, who would be in one of the newer right-wing populist parties, and the religious fundamentalists who wouldn't fit into any party in most European countries.
  - einhverfr 7y ago
    In policy matters, Trump would still be in Liberal. He isn't threatening to ban importing tropical fruit for example, and he is far more hostile to the idea of a safety net than is the Danish People's Party.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> The American political spectrum is way bigger than the political spectrum in most European countries. It has both fewer signficant dimensions and narrower range on those dimensions; it's much smaller, not bigger. Also centered further to the right, on the left-right axis that is the most significant axis of variation in the US; the whole range on that axis with any substantive representation in the US is about center-left to the solid right.
- einhverfr 7y ago
  Elizabeth Warren would be center-right in Europe. Bernie might be center-left depending on country.
anbotero 7y ago
The problem is not the spectrum, I believe, it’s the people. People, for some reason, specially educated ones, cannot handle disagreement. My country had a Red & Blue battle that lasted years, where each party would kill members of the other party. At least now there are more parties and candidates you can align with, but I still think parties are the most stupid thing ever: You will never agree a 100% in everything (and if you do, you’re really weird or probably devoid of criterion), so what’s the point? Deep disagreement comes from passionate people, not from any political spectrum. If you cannot keep your passions somewhat in check, you’re just a time bomb.
- einhverfr 7y ago
  And what happens when you have a global company setting itself up as the gatekeeper of information and of ranking information by truth value? What of such disagreements then?
lagadu 7y ago
"Bigger"? You guys have two parties, one of which is right/far-right and the other is just regular center/right. Parties on most countries on our side of the pond generally range between fascist and communist with at least half a dozen more in between those, not to mention that each differs in other axii too, like the level of cosmopolitanism.

Tempest1981 7y ago

I think that can work for a small group at lunch, and it's great to see. The problems begin on large faceless email/message groups, where the dynamic is less personal.