4 ms·

Trying to bury every single thought that doesn't perfectly conform with the common narrative is unscalable and will only serve to amplify the counter-narrative.

Trying to bury every single thought that doesn't perfectly conform with the common narrative is unscalable and will only serve to amplify the counter-narrative. I see this happening everywhere in relation to the unrest in HK. Ideally, ideas should be discussed on their merit and in the light of day. When faced with what is perceived as dissent, strong counter arguments should be made instead of shutting down discourse. In my opinion, this censorious attitude will be damaging to the pro-democracy movement’s cause in the long term. EDIT: response to jeremysalwen’s comment below since it seems my comments are either being rate limited or filtered. > If the 50 cent army ever came to HN, it would look like the above two comments. Thank you. I could not have asked for a better example of what I meant than your comment. I've seen variants of this type of comment repeated everywhere on HN and Reddit to shut down legitimate discourse. I have only made extremely neutral comments, and yet here I am feeling like I’m being surrounded by a suspicious lynch mob. If you think turning every exchange of ideas into the Spanish Inquisition is the best way to support the plight of the protestors then I’d disagree, but that’s your prerogative. Also, if an echo chamber is what people want HN to be, I can live with that. I just think it’d be a pity because I enjoy reading discussions with a diversity of opinion - more specifically, I enjoy reading high quality responses to actual dissenters, not unsubstantiated witch-hunting or low effort dismissals to every ‘threat’ real or imagined.

jeremysalwen 7y ago
If the 50 cent army ever came to HN, it would look like the above two comments.
- deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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- hktruth 7y ago
  @jeremysalwen What is wrong with my comment above? Do you have a problem with my opinion that the CEO resigned due to brand damage and potential loss of business in the market? Or do you have a problem with actual facts, such as the letter the board of directors wrote, the arrest of a pilot for rioting, etc?
  - groundlogic 7y ago
    You're baiting. I guess you have a playbook to follow.
    - hktruth 7y ago
      You fail to address my points. It is you who are baiting.
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  With the regularity things get flagged off the front page, it's been here for ages.
  - hktruth 7y ago
    I posted a comment which was flagged because it contained links to video evidence showing that protestors have been violent. Here is just a selection. I wonder if this post will get flagged by the thought police. https://twitter.com/sumtingwong2019/status/1158414635759833100?s=08 https://twitter.com/sumtingwong2019/status/11584146357598331... https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1161299001414578177?s=19 https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1161299001414578177?s=1... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgsjUZO9y4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgsjUZO9y4k https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161334705570009089?s=19 https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161334705570009089?s=19 https://twitter.com/Komei365TKO/status/1158359746874707968?s=19 https://twitter.com/Komei365TKO/status/1158359746874707968?s...
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    For my neighbour comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_more_violant/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_mor... As for the stuff that gets flagged off the front page, here's just random things I noticed, some were slightly penalized, some were sunk like a brick very quickly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756823 From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564433 Tracking China's Muslim Gulag https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18674885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18674885 China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19286107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19286107 Database Leak Gives Us a Window into China’s Digital Surveillance State https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19665495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19665495 China Spying on Undersea Internet Cables https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19714401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19714401 China is working to silence critics of its prisonlike re-education camps https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19712564 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19712564 China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20278943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20278943 China Warns World Leaders: Don't Talk About the Hong Kong Protests https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20304526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20304526 I Felt the Fear of Abduction by China in Hong Kong. Appeasing Bejing Has to Stop https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 China pressured London police to arrest Tiananmen protester, says watchdog https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 They Come for Us at Night: China's Vanishing Muslims https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20336543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20336543 China's Vanishing Muslims: Undercover in World's Most Dystopian Place https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20466312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20466312 China Is Drafting Urgent Plan to Resolve Hong Kong Chaos, SCMP Says https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20578900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20578900 China's capital orders Arabic, Muslim symbols taken down https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20702738 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20702738 Medium suspends account that investigates Chinese concentration camps https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20719470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20719470 Hong Kong protest: What is mainland China hearing? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762 A Walk in Hong Kong https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20740626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20740626 Removing Coordinated Inauthentic Behavior from China https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20748615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20748615 China’s Soft-Power Fail: Condemning Hong Kong’s Protests https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20777236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20777236 Why China’s assault on Cathay Pacific should scare all foreign firms https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20780772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20780772 Google refused to call out China over disinformation about Hong Kong While all that is swept under the rug by user flags, that's not enough, some even complain that even the most fluffy criticism of China that manages to get discussed for a bit is some sign of some terrible bias. Goes with the territory, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IingQPPEh0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IingQPPEh0 I'm a simple man: Never again means never again, no ifs and buts, no negotiations.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't do this here. It breaks the site guidelines and makes the threads significantly worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
deleted 7y ago
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joelx 7y ago
We need to evacuate Hong Kong and find other ways to fight against China's totalitarian government. HN also needs to very carefully assess potential shill accounts.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't insinuate astroturfing or shillage without evidence. This breaks the site guidelines, for reasons that I have tried to explain at great length for years; https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme.... Someone else posting an opposing view does not count as evidence. Commenters are overwhelmingly too quick to jump to conclusions about that, and end up poisoning the threads worse because of it.
- heavenlyblue 7y ago
  We need... And what exactly is the chance that we will? I mean, Europe needed to settle 2 million refugees from Syria and how exactly did that turn out for everyone?
  - wbl 7y ago
    Other the European racism what was the problem? The US could use a few million people who work hard and believe in democracy.
    - tinco 7y ago
      Mexicans you mean? People from Syria can not be simply compared to people from Mexico, there is nothing racist about Europe's hesitance to accept more Islamic immigrants. To start with a significant part of them most definitely does not believe in the sort of democracy we maintain.
      - joelx 7y ago
        We can cut off illegal immigration by fixing the problem at the source. Illegal immigrants in many cases are fleeing oppressive regimes and evil dictatorships. We have the largest military on Earth. Let’s use it to help overthrow evil dictatorships in countries like Venezuela and combat drug gangs in Columbia. Let’s give these people free governments. Then they will have no reason to flee and try to emigrate illegally to the United States.

jeremysalwen 7y ago

If the 50 cent army ever came to HN, it would look like the above two comments.

deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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hktruth 7y ago
@jeremysalwen What is wrong with my comment above? Do you have a problem with my opinion that the CEO resigned due to brand damage and potential loss of business in the market? Or do you have a problem with actual facts, such as the letter the board of directors wrote, the arrest of a pilot for rioting, etc?
- groundlogic 7y ago
  You're baiting. I guess you have a playbook to follow.
  - hktruth 7y ago
    You fail to address my points. It is you who are baiting.
PavlovsCat 7y ago
With the regularity things get flagged off the front page, it's been here for ages.
- hktruth 7y ago
  I posted a comment which was flagged because it contained links to video evidence showing that protestors have been violent. Here is just a selection. I wonder if this post will get flagged by the thought police. https://twitter.com/sumtingwong2019/status/1158414635759833100?s=08 https://twitter.com/sumtingwong2019/status/11584146357598331... https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1161299001414578177?s=19 https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1161299001414578177?s=1... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgsjUZO9y4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgsjUZO9y4k https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161334705570009089?s=19 https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161334705570009089?s=19 https://twitter.com/Komei365TKO/status/1158359746874707968?s=19 https://twitter.com/Komei365TKO/status/1158359746874707968?s...
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  For my neighbour comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_more_violant/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_mor... As for the stuff that gets flagged off the front page, here's just random things I noticed, some were slightly penalized, some were sunk like a brick very quickly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17756823 From laboratory in far west, China’s surveillance state spreads quietly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564433 Tracking China's Muslim Gulag https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18674885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18674885 China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19286107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19286107 Database Leak Gives Us a Window into China’s Digital Surveillance State https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19665495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19665495 China Spying on Undersea Internet Cables https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19714401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19714401 China is working to silence critics of its prisonlike re-education camps https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19712564 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19712564 China Bans the Word 'Leica' on Social Media https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20278943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20278943 China Warns World Leaders: Don't Talk About the Hong Kong Protests https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20304526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20304526 I Felt the Fear of Abduction by China in Hong Kong. Appeasing Bejing Has to Stop https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318279 China pressured London police to arrest Tiananmen protester, says watchdog https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315905 They Come for Us at Night: China's Vanishing Muslims https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20336543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20336543 China's Vanishing Muslims: Undercover in World's Most Dystopian Place https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20466312 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20466312 China Is Drafting Urgent Plan to Resolve Hong Kong Chaos, SCMP Says https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20578900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20578900 China's capital orders Arabic, Muslim symbols taken down https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20702738 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20702738 Medium suspends account that investigates Chinese concentration camps https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20719470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20719470 Hong Kong protest: What is mainland China hearing? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20712762 A Walk in Hong Kong https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20740626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20740626 Removing Coordinated Inauthentic Behavior from China https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20748615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20748615 China’s Soft-Power Fail: Condemning Hong Kong’s Protests https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20777236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20777236 Why China’s assault on Cathay Pacific should scare all foreign firms https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20780772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20780772 Google refused to call out China over disinformation about Hong Kong While all that is swept under the rug by user flags, that's not enough, some even complain that even the most fluffy criticism of China that manages to get discussed for a bit is some sign of some terrible bias. Goes with the territory, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IingQPPEh0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IingQPPEh0 I'm a simple man: Never again means never again, no ifs and buts, no negotiations.
dang 7y ago
Please don't do this here. It breaks the site guidelines and makes the threads significantly worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

joelx 7y ago

We need to evacuate Hong Kong and find other ways to fight against China's totalitarian government. HN also needs to very carefully assess potential shill accounts.

dang 7y ago
Please don't insinuate astroturfing or shillage without evidence. This breaks the site guidelines, for reasons that I have tried to explain at great length for years; https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme.... Someone else posting an opposing view does not count as evidence. Commenters are overwhelmingly too quick to jump to conclusions about that, and end up poisoning the threads worse because of it.
heavenlyblue 7y ago
We need... And what exactly is the chance that we will? I mean, Europe needed to settle 2 million refugees from Syria and how exactly did that turn out for everyone?
- wbl 7y ago
  Other the European racism what was the problem? The US could use a few million people who work hard and believe in democracy.
  - tinco 7y ago
    Mexicans you mean? People from Syria can not be simply compared to people from Mexico, there is nothing racist about Europe's hesitance to accept more Islamic immigrants. To start with a significant part of them most definitely does not believe in the sort of democracy we maintain.
    - joelx 7y ago
      We can cut off illegal immigration by fixing the problem at the source. Illegal immigrants in many cases are fleeing oppressive regimes and evil dictatorships. We have the largest military on Earth. Let’s use it to help overthrow evil dictatorships in countries like Venezuela and combat drug gangs in Columbia. Let’s give these people free governments. Then they will have no reason to flee and try to emigrate illegally to the United States.