5 ms·

This is pretty strange to me. I've worked in a bunch of very different places, including Intel Corp. and also defense contractors and US government installatio

by magduf 7y ago

This is pretty strange to me. I've worked in a bunch of very different places, including Intel Corp. and also defense contractors and US government installations, and people generally stayed away from political discussions unless they were around people they already knew were like-minded. The only place I saw political discussion turn really sour was at Intel when we had a contractor who was extremely religious and conservative, and would talk publicly about how homosexuals "offended" him, etc. We ended up not renewing his contract because he was toxic. At government places, political discussions were generally avoided. The Hatch Act might have something to do with that (it's illegal to campaign for any political candidate at a Federal workplace), but mostly I think people just had good common sense. They did talk a little among themselves in the run-up to the election, but it was in-person, with a buddy, not meant to be a public discussion. What's really shocking to me here is this revelation that there's actually "global mailing lists" within the company where political talk is happening. This, I cannot imagine ever seeing at any of my prior employers, ever. I honestly can't imagine why any company would tolerate such a use of its equipment this way. It's just a recipe for trouble.

amyjess 7y ago
> What's really shocking to me here is this revelation that there's actually "global mailing lists" within the company where political talk is happening. This, I cannot imagine ever seeing at any of my prior employers, ever. I honestly can't imagine why any company would tolerate such a use of its equipment this way. It's just a recipe for trouble. I agree. My company has a "no politics" rule spelled out in the employee handbook, and that's worked out really well. At most, some of us will have private, in-person, one-on-one conversations about politics, which is fine because it doesn't drag in anyone who doesn't want to be there. The off-topic channels on our Slack consist of memes, jokes, and chat about movies and video games, plus the occasional bit of tech news. It's a pretty pleasant place because of the no politics rule.
MFLoon 7y ago
Just the existence of any kind of active, noisy global mailing lists seems like an indicator of organizational immaturity, let alone ones catering to political discussion.
0xffff2 7y ago
This matches my experience completely. My current and longest single job is as a US Federal contractor. You might get a political word or two over lunch off base around here, although the civil servants tend to be more tight lipped than us contractors for the aforementioned reasons. You would never in a million years see any kind of political discussion occurring via email, no matter if it was government or contractor email or people. As far as I know, it's not even an official policy (beyond standard government "for official use only" policies), there's just not sane reason to ever do it.
squirrelicus 7y ago
This is one of the cons of non-discrimination laws. We can't tell people like that why they got fired. Something tells me that if I could tell someone I fired them because of their support for antifa or the alt-right, that evil nonsense would bleed itself out of our society in a short time.
- letmeinhere 7y ago
  #bothsides, amiright? On one hand you have the continuation of a 150 year old white supremacist terror movement whose adherents have recently and repeatedly murdered dozens of people solely because of who they are, and on the other you have those scary people with the masks who will throw a milk shake at someone, just because that person is a fascist. It's really too bad that we can't just empower indifferent moderates like yourself to sort things out in a totally even-handed and proportionate manner.
  - squirrelicus 7y ago
    I think you're minimizing the impact of antifa psychos. And I'm no moderate. Antifa is explicitly about violence, racism, and is associated with the Dayton Ohio shooter as well as the recent attacks on the ICE facilities.
    - objectivetruth 7y ago
      >And I'm no moderate. I agree with you 100% that you are no moderate. Evidence point #1: You tried to perpetuate the widely-debunked myth that the Dayton nutbag was some sort of leftist terrorist instead of a troubled spree killer who killed his trans sibling and several bystanders. (For other readers: that was an unfortunately common false attempt to lump in "a killer who incidentally liked Tweets on Twitter" with "the numerous recent killers who DID leave white supremacist manifestos before going on their rampages.") Evidence point #2: You said "Antifa is explicitly about violence, racism" in the preceding clause. A moderate would have correctly expanded that clause to "Anti-fascists are explicitly about violence against fascists and the racism that white supremacist fascists espouse." So I can confirm your assertion that you are not a "moderate." I just think it's a bummer you folks have to call yourselves "anti-anti-fascists" because that's SIX whole syllables.
closeparen 7y ago
Many of my teammates are immigrants. Visa related uncertainty and progress are major parts of their lives. The H1-B renewal lottery colors all future plans. Finally getting a green card is like having a child or buying a house. When the President tweets about blowing up NAFTA, my colleagues on TN-1s can no longer be sure which country they'll live in six months from now. We tried to go for drinks and couldn't get into the bar: my work friend's driver license is expired and she can't get a new one while her visa application is in a queue somewhere at DHS. If we know each other at all as people, immigration policy certainly comes up.
- thebruce87m 7y ago
  They wouldn’t let her in to the bar because her license had expired? What do they care as long as it has the correct DOB on it?
  - jazzyjackson 7y ago
    Eh I get where you're coming from but it comes down to the bouncer or whoever. You get people who say an expired license is not a valid ID and they require a valid ID to get in.
    - thebruce87m 7y ago
      Strange! “I’m not letting you drink unless you can drive”
      - magduf 7y ago
        >“I’m not letting you drink unless you can drive” Welcome to the US. Things are really wacky here. Another really wacky thing: you can't walk around or be in public with an alcoholic drink (e.g., you can't have a beer in a public park outside, on a picnic, etc.), even though drinking is such a huge, huge, huge part of our culture. Yet in most other developed nations, it's perfectly legal. You can even buy beer in vending machines in Japan.
- 7y ago

by magduf 7y ago

amyjess 7y ago

> What's really shocking to me here is this revelation that there's actually "global mailing lists" within the company where political talk is happening. This, I cannot imagine ever seeing at any of my prior employers, ever. I honestly can't imagine why any company would tolerate such a use of its equipment this way. It's just a recipe for trouble. I agree. My company has a "no politics" rule spelled out in the employee handbook, and that's worked out really well. At most, some of us will have private, in-person, one-on-one conversations about politics, which is fine because it doesn't drag in anyone who doesn't want to be there. The off-topic channels on our Slack consist of memes, jokes, and chat about movies and video games, plus the occasional bit of tech news. It's a pretty pleasant place because of the no politics rule.

MFLoon 7y ago

Just the existence of any kind of active, noisy global mailing lists seems like an indicator of organizational immaturity, let alone ones catering to political discussion.

0xffff2 7y ago

This matches my experience completely. My current and longest single job is as a US Federal contractor. You might get a political word or two over lunch off base around here, although the civil servants tend to be more tight lipped than us contractors for the aforementioned reasons. You would never in a million years see any kind of political discussion occurring via email, no matter if it was government or contractor email or people. As far as I know, it's not even an official policy (beyond standard government "for official use only" policies), there's just not sane reason to ever do it.

squirrelicus 7y ago

This is one of the cons of non-discrimination laws. We can't tell people like that why they got fired. Something tells me that if I could tell someone I fired them because of their support for antifa or the alt-right, that evil nonsense would bleed itself out of our society in a short time.

letmeinhere 7y ago
#bothsides, amiright? On one hand you have the continuation of a 150 year old white supremacist terror movement whose adherents have recently and repeatedly murdered dozens of people solely because of who they are, and on the other you have those scary people with the masks who will throw a milk shake at someone, just because that person is a fascist. It's really too bad that we can't just empower indifferent moderates like yourself to sort things out in a totally even-handed and proportionate manner.
- squirrelicus 7y ago
  I think you're minimizing the impact of antifa psychos. And I'm no moderate. Antifa is explicitly about violence, racism, and is associated with the Dayton Ohio shooter as well as the recent attacks on the ICE facilities.
  - objectivetruth 7y ago
    >And I'm no moderate. I agree with you 100% that you are no moderate. Evidence point #1: You tried to perpetuate the widely-debunked myth that the Dayton nutbag was some sort of leftist terrorist instead of a troubled spree killer who killed his trans sibling and several bystanders. (For other readers: that was an unfortunately common false attempt to lump in "a killer who incidentally liked Tweets on Twitter" with "the numerous recent killers who DID leave white supremacist manifestos before going on their rampages.") Evidence point #2: You said "Antifa is explicitly about violence, racism" in the preceding clause. A moderate would have correctly expanded that clause to "Anti-fascists are explicitly about violence against fascists and the racism that white supremacist fascists espouse." So I can confirm your assertion that you are not a "moderate." I just think it's a bummer you folks have to call yourselves "anti-anti-fascists" because that's SIX whole syllables.

closeparen 7y ago

Many of my teammates are immigrants. Visa related uncertainty and progress are major parts of their lives. The H1-B renewal lottery colors all future plans. Finally getting a green card is like having a child or buying a house. When the President tweets about blowing up NAFTA, my colleagues on TN-1s can no longer be sure which country they'll live in six months from now. We tried to go for drinks and couldn't get into the bar: my work friend's driver license is expired and she can't get a new one while her visa application is in a queue somewhere at DHS. If we know each other at all as people, immigration policy certainly comes up.

thebruce87m 7y ago
They wouldn’t let her in to the bar because her license had expired? What do they care as long as it has the correct DOB on it?
- jazzyjackson 7y ago
  Eh I get where you're coming from but it comes down to the bouncer or whoever. You get people who say an expired license is not a valid ID and they require a valid ID to get in.
  - thebruce87m 7y ago
    Strange! “I’m not letting you drink unless you can drive”
    - magduf 7y ago
      >“I’m not letting you drink unless you can drive” Welcome to the US. Things are really wacky here. Another really wacky thing: you can't walk around or be in public with an alcoholic drink (e.g., you can't have a beer in a public park outside, on a picnic, etc.), even though drinking is such a huge, huge, huge part of our culture. Yet in most other developed nations, it's perfectly legal. You can even buy beer in vending machines in Japan.
7y ago