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Neither is allowing schizophrenics, petty criminals and drug addicts to harm themselves and others, on the assumption that there's no such thing as normative ci

Neither is allowing schizophrenics, petty criminals and drug addicts to harm themselves and others, on the assumption that there's no such thing as normative civil behaviour. So that they might be "healed" by being left to their own devices, someone else needs to be harmed. That someone is usually the poor naive bougie who thought that by paying property taxes and having a job, he could expect to be able to retain possession of his bike && not have to step over piles of human excrement on the way to the shop down the corner. Singapore seems to avoid having these problems, as does Shanghai. So, while authoritarianism isn't about healing, that really isn't a primary function of state. Keeping order, maintaining a monopoly on violence, and maybe providing against certain preventable evils is really more why we have governments.

crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
Then maybe it's time for governments to evolve because why AREN'T they being oriented toward collective and individual well-being, which would include healing? And I never claimed leaving people to their own devices was a healing modality, either. We need to expand the concept of responsibility to be aligned with reality. I'm at least partially responsible for everything that hapoen to me after this next breath. Same for you and yours. And I am also partially responsible for everything in happening in the world. Same for you. Let's start from this perspective and redesign government to be something everyone can love and that is loving. Right now, it's a pretty gross construct that harms way more people in much more severe ways than drug addicts, petty criminals, and people struggling with mental issues.
- linksnapzz 7y ago
  That is lovely sentiment; however, I fear that I will ride a space elevator before I ever have the chance to live in regime managed for the furtherance of my and my neighbors' well-being. It's nice to dream, though.
  - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
    If it doesn't exist, it's because you haven't created it. Wanna help me with the task of redesigning government to focus on well-being from the very bottom by rewriting the Declaration of Independence as a Song for Autonomous Interdependence, changing the unrealistic concepts in it? It'll be easy. I give you a song lyric and you tell me if you think it's a lovely sentiment or not. If so, we're probably on the right track because the things we need can be the hardest to imagine.
- munificent 7y ago
  > why AREN'T they being oriented toward collective and individual well-being Because these are opposing forces. It improves my individual well-being to be able to steal yachts from the marina, drive them around, and set them on fire. But it doesn't improve the collective well-being of the community — including its yacht owners — for me to be able to do that. It improves the collective well-being of a community to take a dangerously mentally ill person and lock them up forever so that they aren't a threat to others. It does not do much that person's well-being. Obviously, there are good policies that thread the needle. It is not a zero-sum game. But it is absolutely a game where not everyone can get what they want and very hard choices and sacrifices must be made. > redesign government to be something everyone can love and that is loving. There are actual serial killers, rapists, child traffickers, and abusers out there. They are in the minority. But a key function of government is to protect the majority from that minority. No government that protects us from those bad actors is going to be loved by those bad actors.

crawfordcomeaux 7y ago

Then maybe it's time for governments to evolve because why AREN'T they being oriented toward collective and individual well-being, which would include healing? And I never claimed leaving people to their own devices was a healing modality, either. We need to expand the concept of responsibility to be aligned with reality. I'm at least partially responsible for everything that hapoen to me after this next breath. Same for you and yours. And I am also partially responsible for everything in happening in the world. Same for you. Let's start from this perspective and redesign government to be something everyone can love and that is loving. Right now, it's a pretty gross construct that harms way more people in much more severe ways than drug addicts, petty criminals, and people struggling with mental issues.

linksnapzz 7y ago
That is lovely sentiment; however, I fear that I will ride a space elevator before I ever have the chance to live in regime managed for the furtherance of my and my neighbors' well-being. It's nice to dream, though.
- crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
  If it doesn't exist, it's because you haven't created it. Wanna help me with the task of redesigning government to focus on well-being from the very bottom by rewriting the Declaration of Independence as a Song for Autonomous Interdependence, changing the unrealistic concepts in it? It'll be easy. I give you a song lyric and you tell me if you think it's a lovely sentiment or not. If so, we're probably on the right track because the things we need can be the hardest to imagine.
munificent 7y ago
> why AREN'T they being oriented toward collective and individual well-being Because these are opposing forces. It improves my individual well-being to be able to steal yachts from the marina, drive them around, and set them on fire. But it doesn't improve the collective well-being of the community — including its yacht owners — for me to be able to do that. It improves the collective well-being of a community to take a dangerously mentally ill person and lock them up forever so that they aren't a threat to others. It does not do much that person's well-being. Obviously, there are good policies that thread the needle. It is not a zero-sum game. But it is absolutely a game where not everyone can get what they want and very hard choices and sacrifices must be made. > redesign government to be something everyone can love and that is loving. There are actual serial killers, rapists, child traffickers, and abusers out there. They are in the minority. But a key function of government is to protect the majority from that minority. No government that protects us from those bad actors is going to be loved by those bad actors.