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Why don't we form a new WTO, without China or other dictatorships, and only allow in democracies that are liberal or liberalizing? There's no point in opening o

by dangjc 7y ago

Why don't we form a new WTO, without China or other dictatorships, and only allow in democracies that are liberal or liberalizing? There's no point in opening our arms to China if they aren't moving on the right track anymore towards becoming a free and fair society.

ReptileMan 7y ago
Because the big money making opportunities are not in the liberal democracies. With Europe and USA on a path of the decline - none of the powers that come online care about liberal values. They learned the lesson that it is important how you manage the economy, not the social values.
theseadroid 7y ago
Potentially because people have different understanding of what a free and fair society is.
- chronic829 7y ago
  > Potentially because people have different understanding of what a free and fair society is. Simple. Give people a choice which society they're allowed to live in. China currently does not do that.
  - ndarwincorn 7y ago
    > Give people a choice which society they're allowed to live in. By this metric, this would be a prohibitively small WTO.
  - theseadroid 7y ago
    Totally agree. My question is which country does do that? I have voted once by moving. But I still don't have the choice to live in a society that I think is free and fair. I wish I can live in a society where inequality is minimal, where people work and innovate not because of money, but because they enjoy their work and enjoy innovation. I wish I and my fellow citizens can have universal health and dental care, free higher education. I wish a political system without bribing disguised as lobbying, without innovation-killing monopoly. I wish we have similar chance of being happy irrelevant of how rich our parents are. A place where mental illness people are treated, instead of being free to be on the street. Where I can freely roam the city at any hour without the fear of being robbed or raped. Where the urban/transit design makes people free from using cars if they feel not like to. Where I don't have to work as a housing slave. Now, if my view of a free and fair society is a majority view, why there's isn't one that I can go? If my view is a minority one, then I still don't have the choice in a democracy isn't it?
  - FabHK 7y ago
    For an elaboration of that idea, see Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia. (I used to find it quite convincing, but not anymore :-)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mythrwy 7y ago
Because US Chamber of commerce is still holding on to the beautiful dream of selling one bottle of Coke to each of 1.3 billion people. Even though after all these years they should understand it isn't going to work like that. (i.e it's a massive market).
knowaveragejoe 7y ago
We have to meet them halfway, too. Trumpism and its ilk isn't helping at all.

by dangjc 7y ago

ReptileMan 7y ago

Because the big money making opportunities are not in the liberal democracies. With Europe and USA on a path of the decline - none of the powers that come online care about liberal values. They learned the lesson that it is important how you manage the economy, not the social values.

theseadroid 7y ago

Potentially because people have different understanding of what a free and fair society is.

chronic829 7y ago
> Potentially because people have different understanding of what a free and fair society is. Simple. Give people a choice which society they're allowed to live in. China currently does not do that.
- ndarwincorn 7y ago
  > Give people a choice which society they're allowed to live in. By this metric, this would be a prohibitively small WTO.
- theseadroid 7y ago
  Totally agree. My question is which country does do that? I have voted once by moving. But I still don't have the choice to live in a society that I think is free and fair. I wish I can live in a society where inequality is minimal, where people work and innovate not because of money, but because they enjoy their work and enjoy innovation. I wish I and my fellow citizens can have universal health and dental care, free higher education. I wish a political system without bribing disguised as lobbying, without innovation-killing monopoly. I wish we have similar chance of being happy irrelevant of how rich our parents are. A place where mental illness people are treated, instead of being free to be on the street. Where I can freely roam the city at any hour without the fear of being robbed or raped. Where the urban/transit design makes people free from using cars if they feel not like to. Where I don't have to work as a housing slave. Now, if my view of a free and fair society is a majority view, why there's isn't one that I can go? If my view is a minority one, then I still don't have the choice in a democracy isn't it?
- FabHK 7y ago
  For an elaboration of that idea, see Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia. (I used to find it quite convincing, but not anymore :-)

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mythrwy 7y ago

Because US Chamber of commerce is still holding on to the beautiful dream of selling one bottle of Coke to each of 1.3 billion people. Even though after all these years they should understand it isn't going to work like that. (i.e it's a massive market).

knowaveragejoe 7y ago

We have to meet them halfway, too. Trumpism and its ilk isn't helping at all.