5 ms·

Finally common sense prevails! Get to work on time, eat your free lunch, work, go home. To those of you who disagree; if you want to "make a difference" take a

Finally common sense prevails! Get to work on time, eat your free lunch, work, go home. To those of you who disagree; if you want to "make a difference" take a cue from Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther king Jr. etc. Mahama Gandhi didn't work for the East India company while simultaneously fighting for freedom. If you are serious about it put your money where your mouth is and stop being empty vessels.

major505 7y ago
Marting Luther King would give up if he witnesed the current political debate.
skybrian 7y ago
This insistence on purity seems kind of naive and unsympathetic. I assume real history is more complicated. Do you really think there weren't blacks fighting for civil rights while working for racists?
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > This insistence on purity seems kind of naive and unsympathetic. Considering the Google social-justice crowd is playing the moral purity game, I would assume they would strive for purity.
- ashwinaj 7y ago
  You can nitpick. But I'm pretty certain most, if not all, African Americans who worked for racists were fired if they found out that they were part of the civil rights movement. As Jordan Peterson says, clean up your room before you go fixing the world. Go up from Shoreline towards 101 and see the number of homeless people; what exactly are these enlightened Googlers doing for them other than ignoring them and driving away with their expensive Maserati's, Tesla's etc. and complaining about how expensive it is to live in the bay area. How about NIMBY laws? The list goes on and on..
TheGRS 7y ago
I have a feeling that many of the activists who were just protesters alongside those big names didn't quit their jobs to pursue of lifetime of pure activism. I'm not sure why having a job precludes you from being political.
carapace 7y ago
> Mahama Gandhi didn't work for the East India company while simultaneously fighting for freedom. LOL! I worked at Google for about two years as a "TVC" (a programmer in a cubical, not a "real" Googler) and it was like being kidnapped by aliens, after I left that's how it felt: Like I was one of those people who had just been returned to Earth. One thing that doesn't get talked about in re: Google and values: there's an entire "underclass" of employees that are of definite inferior status. The janitors, re-stockers of cafes, and maintenance people, etc. They wear special uniforms, and are trained not to fraternize with the "real" Googlers. They don't get to ride the fancy buses to and from work. They are also of a different racial mix. Googlers are generally white or Asian but the staff are generally Hispanic. So there's politics, and then there's politics...
- nesyt 7y ago
  This is true of most (perhaps all) big tech (perhaps all) companies.
  - ericd 7y ago
    Maybe, but if you loudly espouse progressive values as Googlers seem to do more than most tech workers, maybe you should put some of those values into practice, and actually make a real effort to integrate those contractors into the group?
- CBLT 7y ago
  Is this in California? I've noticed in California that food service workers (at any establishment) tend to be Hispanic. In Toronto, they tend to be Asian. Since these companies are required to be race-blind when hiring, they are going to be a reflection of their local job markets.
- ThrustVectoring 7y ago
  This is arguably because of ERISA and Google's decision to make their 401(k) plan highly optimized for software developers. ERISA says that you have to offer the same 401(k) to all employees and that it has to meet fairness criteria for "highly compensated" employees, but it doesn't say what labor inputs have to be provided by employees vs contractors.
stcredzero 7y ago
if you want to "make a difference" take a cue from Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther king Jr. etc To elaborate the examples/options: 1) Become a lawyer -- Real change can be enacted through legislation and litigation. Knowing how the law works is power in this context. 2) Be involved in politics -- Again, real change can be enacted through legislation. This doesn't just mean running for office. One of my ex-girlfriends' step-fathers worked at a juvenile halfway house, and he regularly acted as an unpaid lobbyist. I have another friend who has also acted as an unpaid lobbyist for environmental causes. Anyone can do it. It's just a matter of being articulate, preparing, and having the time. (Also, everyone knows that lots of paid lobbyists are basically like mercenaries, so if your sincerity comes through and you know your stuff, there will be people open to your alternative take.) 3) Public speaking and writing -- All of the above did that. Also, with regards to 2 and 3, do this in the larger community, outside of your workplace. This makes your activism a pull for people, instead of a push. Just imagine if people of _political_party_you_dont_like_ started to get involved in committees at your job and started to foist their particular beliefs on you there in the form of policies. It's not a big stretch to see how that could be interpreted as a subtle form of political attack, through the sensitive area of one's livelihood. It's easy to see how that can close minds, where otherwise there might have been a chance to convince, instead of coerce. This brings me to number 4: 4) Convince. Don't coerce. -- In particular, in the startup community, we should know that getting people to pull can work much better than a push, which can even elicit a backlash.
- einhverfr 7y ago
  As an aside, I came to Gandhi's views on nationalism while living in Indonesia. Gandhi was a genius there and his views on the rightful place of nationalism have shaped a continent for the better.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
The East India Company analogy doesn't fit. Google doesn't have a private army to subjugate the countries it trades with. Gandhi working at some other company might be a better fit, but even that isn't a good analogy. A lot of these people don't see themselves as Gandhis, Kings, Mandelas, etc. but only as their followers, who did have regular day jobs.
jogjayr 7y ago
> Mahama Gandhi didn't work for the East India company while simultaneously fighting for freedom. Given that the East India Company was dissolved when he was 5, this would've been difficult.[1][2] He did however work in the ambulance corps for the British Army in the Boer War. And advocated for cooperation with the British government in WW1 right up until the Jalianwala Bagh massacre.[3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Champaran_and_Kheda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Champaran_and_K...

major505 7y ago

Marting Luther King would give up if he witnesed the current political debate.

skybrian 7y ago

This insistence on purity seems kind of naive and unsympathetic. I assume real history is more complicated. Do you really think there weren't blacks fighting for civil rights while working for racists?

mieseratte 7y ago
> This insistence on purity seems kind of naive and unsympathetic. Considering the Google social-justice crowd is playing the moral purity game, I would assume they would strive for purity.
ashwinaj 7y ago
You can nitpick. But I'm pretty certain most, if not all, African Americans who worked for racists were fired if they found out that they were part of the civil rights movement. As Jordan Peterson says, clean up your room before you go fixing the world. Go up from Shoreline towards 101 and see the number of homeless people; what exactly are these enlightened Googlers doing for them other than ignoring them and driving away with their expensive Maserati's, Tesla's etc. and complaining about how expensive it is to live in the bay area. How about NIMBY laws? The list goes on and on..

TheGRS 7y ago

I have a feeling that many of the activists who were just protesters alongside those big names didn't quit their jobs to pursue of lifetime of pure activism. I'm not sure why having a job precludes you from being political.

carapace 7y ago

> Mahama Gandhi didn't work for the East India company while simultaneously fighting for freedom. LOL! I worked at Google for about two years as a "TVC" (a programmer in a cubical, not a "real" Googler) and it was like being kidnapped by aliens, after I left that's how it felt: Like I was one of those people who had just been returned to Earth. One thing that doesn't get talked about in re: Google and values: there's an entire "underclass" of employees that are of definite inferior status. The janitors, re-stockers of cafes, and maintenance people, etc. They wear special uniforms, and are trained not to fraternize with the "real" Googlers. They don't get to ride the fancy buses to and from work. They are also of a different racial mix. Googlers are generally white or Asian but the staff are generally Hispanic. So there's politics, and then there's politics...

nesyt 7y ago
This is true of most (perhaps all) big tech (perhaps all) companies.
- ericd 7y ago
  Maybe, but if you loudly espouse progressive values as Googlers seem to do more than most tech workers, maybe you should put some of those values into practice, and actually make a real effort to integrate those contractors into the group?
CBLT 7y ago
Is this in California? I've noticed in California that food service workers (at any establishment) tend to be Hispanic. In Toronto, they tend to be Asian. Since these companies are required to be race-blind when hiring, they are going to be a reflection of their local job markets.
ThrustVectoring 7y ago
This is arguably because of ERISA and Google's decision to make their 401(k) plan highly optimized for software developers. ERISA says that you have to offer the same 401(k) to all employees and that it has to meet fairness criteria for "highly compensated" employees, but it doesn't say what labor inputs have to be provided by employees vs contractors.

stcredzero 7y ago

if you want to "make a difference" take a cue from Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther king Jr. etc To elaborate the examples/options: 1) Become a lawyer -- Real change can be enacted through legislation and litigation. Knowing how the law works is power in this context. 2) Be involved in politics -- Again, real change can be enacted through legislation. This doesn't just mean running for office. One of my ex-girlfriends' step-fathers worked at a juvenile halfway house, and he regularly acted as an unpaid lobbyist. I have another friend who has also acted as an unpaid lobbyist for environmental causes. Anyone can do it. It's just a matter of being articulate, preparing, and having the time. (Also, everyone knows that lots of paid lobbyists are basically like mercenaries, so if your sincerity comes through and you know your stuff, there will be people open to your alternative take.) 3) Public speaking and writing -- All of the above did that. Also, with regards to 2 and 3, do this in the larger community, outside of your workplace. This makes your activism a pull for people, instead of a push. Just imagine if people of _political_party_you_dont_like_ started to get involved in committees at your job and started to foist their particular beliefs on you there in the form of policies. It's not a big stretch to see how that could be interpreted as a subtle form of political attack, through the sensitive area of one's livelihood. It's easy to see how that can close minds, where otherwise there might have been a chance to convince, instead of coerce. This brings me to number 4: 4) Convince. Don't coerce. -- In particular, in the startup community, we should know that getting people to pull can work much better than a push, which can even elicit a backlash.

einhverfr 7y ago
As an aside, I came to Gandhi's views on nationalism while living in Indonesia. Gandhi was a genius there and his views on the rightful place of nationalism have shaped a continent for the better.

lern_too_spel 7y ago

The East India Company analogy doesn't fit. Google doesn't have a private army to subjugate the countries it trades with. Gandhi working at some other company might be a better fit, but even that isn't a good analogy. A lot of these people don't see themselves as Gandhis, Kings, Mandelas, etc. but only as their followers, who did have regular day jobs.

jogjayr 7y ago

> Mahama Gandhi didn't work for the East India company while simultaneously fighting for freedom. Given that the East India Company was dissolved when he was 5, this would've been difficult.[1][2] He did however work in the ambulance corps for the British Army in the Boer War. And advocated for cooperation with the British government in WW1 right up until the Jalianwala Bagh massacre.[3] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Champaran_and_Kheda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Champaran_and_K...