3 ms·

Even if your place of work has a hand and a demonstrably relevant position in a lot of global political discussions?

by dvtrn 7y ago

gtirloni 7y ago
You can have proper workshops/apps/meetings to discuss these things and gather input from all employees in a way that doesn't disturb the regular day-to-day work. The problem is that discussing politics at any time in your workplace to people that have opposite views and/or don't want to discuss politics at that time is counterproductive.
- dvtrn 7y ago
  I think I can agree in the affirmative with the first sentence, not so much the second one, with the context of my original comment in mind. If your company is demonstrably involved in issues that affect global, heck or even local politics, speaking to those affairs is an imperative. Whether or not people enter those conversations with the intent on solving problems and actually discussing in earnest is where things get weird, admittedly.
EpicEng 7y ago
That's really the crux of the issue. I agree that people should probably leave most of their personal beliefs at home... unless it's something that directly related to what the company is doing. So Google employees are supposed to just shut up or leave?
- dvtrn 7y ago
  So Google employees are supposed to just shut up or leave? An important question, I think. It would seem some think they should, and some probably think they should do both. Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. An attitude I find personally disheartening, but I'll stop there because these discussions never end well.
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    >Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. But even then there's a difference; NFL players aren't protesting the actions of the NFL. If Google employees were using their position to push some agenda the company did not agree with and had nothing to do with then I'd agree. It's certainly within Google's rights to take a "shut up and work" position, but I don't imagine it will work out well for them in the long run.
    - dvtrn 7y ago
      NFL players aren't protesting the actions of the NFL. Oh yes, they absolutely are. Miami Dolphin's player Kenny Stills directly protested his team owner's involvement and affiliation with a charity donating funds to the Trump administration. This seems to have had some result: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article234196212.html https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-j... Oakland Raider's player Antonio Brown is directly protesting recent changes to the NFL's helmet guideline policies. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-reacts-after-new-helmet-reportedly-fails-nfl-testing-cannot-be-worn-in-2019/ https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-reacts-afte... Seattle Seahawks player Earl Thomas, in addition to protesting criminal justice inequalities, directly protested his team and how the league was, at the time, addressing and handling player safety, right before he himself got injured and gave his coach the finger while being carted off the field. He has since been traded. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/01/earl-thomas-middle-finger-seattle-seahawks-nfl-leg-fracture https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/01/earl-thomas-mi... Players are absolutely protesting the actions of the NFL in some degree or another. To say otherwise is, I'm sorry, to be ignorant of the issues.
      - EpicEng 7y ago
        >Oh yes, they absolutely are Well, yeah... of course there are instances of that. None of those are examples represent "social change". When you talk about protests in the NFL in the context of this thread, anyone who doesn't live under a rock is going to think of taking a knee during the anthem. C'mon, helmet disputes? In what way is that relevant to your quote here? >Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. Are you arguing just to argue?
- d1zzy 7y ago
  No, what in my opinion they should do is: 1. use designated/official channels to report such issues (ex. talk to their manager or their HR representative or even bring it up at TGIF) 2. if #1 fails they have a choice: continue working or walk away. Nobody is forcing them to work for a company that doesn't listen to them for issues they deeply care about (presumably) A company is not a democracy. There should of course be plenty of channels to get feedback up the chain but the decision is ultimately that of those hired to make such decisions, not of software engineers hired to do something else entirely.
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    Agreed, but it's Google's approach that's up for discussion here, not whether or not they have the right to shut down such discussion. I don't think a company who shits down reasonable debate is going to do well over the long term.

Even if your place of work has a hand and a demonstrably relevant position in a lot of global political discussions?

by dvtrn 7y ago

Even if your place of work has a hand and a demonstrably relevant position in a lot of global political discussions?

You can have proper workshops/apps/meetings to discuss these things and gather input from all employees in a way that doesn't disturb the regular day-to-day work. The problem is that discussing politics at any time in your workplace to people that have opposite views and/or don't want to discuss politics at that time is counterproductive.

dvtrn 7y ago
I think I can agree in the affirmative with the first sentence, not so much the second one, with the context of my original comment in mind. If your company is demonstrably involved in issues that affect global, heck or even local politics, speaking to those affairs is an imperative. Whether or not people enter those conversations with the intent on solving problems and actually discussing in earnest is where things get weird, admittedly.

EpicEng 7y ago

That's really the crux of the issue. I agree that people should probably leave most of their personal beliefs at home... unless it's something that directly related to what the company is doing. So Google employees are supposed to just shut up or leave?

dvtrn 7y ago
So Google employees are supposed to just shut up or leave? An important question, I think. It would seem some think they should, and some probably think they should do both. Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. An attitude I find personally disheartening, but I'll stop there because these discussions never end well.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  >Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. But even then there's a difference; NFL players aren't protesting the actions of the NFL. If Google employees were using their position to push some agenda the company did not agree with and had nothing to do with then I'd agree. It's certainly within Google's rights to take a "shut up and work" position, but I don't imagine it will work out well for them in the long run.
  - dvtrn 7y ago
    NFL players aren't protesting the actions of the NFL. Oh yes, they absolutely are. Miami Dolphin's player Kenny Stills directly protested his team owner's involvement and affiliation with a charity donating funds to the Trump administration. This seems to have had some result: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article234196212.html https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-j... Oakland Raider's player Antonio Brown is directly protesting recent changes to the NFL's helmet guideline policies. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-reacts-after-new-helmet-reportedly-fails-nfl-testing-cannot-be-worn-in-2019/ https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-reacts-afte... Seattle Seahawks player Earl Thomas, in addition to protesting criminal justice inequalities, directly protested his team and how the league was, at the time, addressing and handling player safety, right before he himself got injured and gave his coach the finger while being carted off the field. He has since been traded. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/01/earl-thomas-middle-finger-seattle-seahawks-nfl-leg-fracture https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/01/earl-thomas-mi... Players are absolutely protesting the actions of the NFL in some degree or another. To say otherwise is, I'm sorry, to be ignorant of the issues.
    - EpicEng 7y ago
      >Oh yes, they absolutely are Well, yeah... of course there are instances of that. None of those are examples represent "social change". When you talk about protests in the NFL in the context of this thread, anyone who doesn't live under a rock is going to think of taking a knee during the anthem. C'mon, helmet disputes? In what way is that relevant to your quote here? >Brings to mind the attitude of "shutup and play ball" when sports athletes try to use their platforms for some aspect of social change or another. Are you arguing just to argue?
d1zzy 7y ago
No, what in my opinion they should do is: 1. use designated/official channels to report such issues (ex. talk to their manager or their HR representative or even bring it up at TGIF) 2. if #1 fails they have a choice: continue working or walk away. Nobody is forcing them to work for a company that doesn't listen to them for issues they deeply care about (presumably) A company is not a democracy. There should of course be plenty of channels to get feedback up the chain but the decision is ultimately that of those hired to make such decisions, not of software engineers hired to do something else entirely.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  Agreed, but it's Google's approach that's up for discussion here, not whether or not they have the right to shut down such discussion. I don't think a company who shits down reasonable debate is going to do well over the long term.