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I now consider myself one of these people. I've written and shipped a number of business applications, but have little understanding of CS concepts and was unab

I now consider myself one of these people. I've written and shipped a number of business applications, but have little understanding of CS concepts and was unable to complete some leetcode problems I tried a while back. Unfortunately, I find myself mentally unable to keep focus and and attention to properly learn. I've looked at going back to school as well, but cost make it impossible. Anecdotally, i recently became semi_obsessed with operating systems and OS development.I tried to pick up C wanting to do some kernel development on NetBSD and thought it would be easy, given the familiar syntax, u just needed to learn pointer logic/ arithmetic. I was finally defeated after trying to write a program with multidimensional arrays and working with them decayed down to pointers. At the same time, though, I need a new job asap, so I've given up on the interesting stuff and am back to learning stuff for employability reasons only

mysterydip 7y ago
What about the various "adult/continuing education for working people" courses where you do a bit at a time? Supposed to cost less as well.
- non-entity 7y ago
  I haven't seen any seen any sort of programs in my state, but it might be and issue that I'm not exactly a "non-traditional" student. I'm actually college aged,I just skipped college to jump into the workforce
dominotw 7y ago
> I've written and shipped a number of business applications Then you are a programmer.
ahvetm 7y ago
I don't know if this is helpful, but for the introductory course in programming at University we followed an earlier edition of this free book: https://greenteapress.com/wp/think-python-2e/ https://greenteapress.com/wp/think-python-2e/
_pmf_ 7y ago
> I now consider myself one of these people. Please don't. Do enough interview situations at companies you don't care much about to numb you down (I did); this helps with nervousness. And sometimes you find out that you don't actually mind working there, and end up being hired (I did).
2wrist 7y ago
I feel like I am similar. I have been reading A Mind for Numbers- How to Excel at Maths and Science by Barbara Oakley and it goes in to how to develop focus and how to learn. I find it pretty applicable to software development. It has been pretty good and something I am trying to apply. I would recommend it. Good luck to you.
- devinjflick 7y ago
  Her Coursera course Learning to Learn is super helpful as well, I bought her book after going through her course, unfortunately it has sat on my reading list for the past 6m
rifung 7y ago
> I now consider myself one of these people. I've written and shipped a number of business applications, but have little understanding of CS concepts and was unable to complete some leetcode problems I tried a while back. I don't think fizzbuzz == leetcode? I thought fizzbuzz was like super basic can you write a for loop type question. https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ I think it's pretty common for people to not be able to do leetcode. I learned the concepts in college and usually did very well in class. I didn't even bother preparing for interviews and could still pass. However, after working for a while I don't think I'd be able to do them anymore, or at least not at the speed which is expected.
- non-entity 7y ago
  A fizzbuzz is something in could easily write. I think I was working on some binary tree problems at the time
jdlyga 7y ago
You shouldn't feel so bad. Leetcode problems are tough, even the easier ones, and I have 10 years experience. When I was looking for a new job last year, I could barely finish one or two of them and felt pretty discouraged. But with practice, they become a lot easier and I was knocking them out. The problems are hard because they cover an area of programming that most developers don't work with everyday. It's a separate skill set. I highly recommend Georgia Tech's online master's program. It's ranked in the top 10 of all CS programs worldwide. The total cost of the program is under $10,000, and you can take a class part time while you're working full time. I'm halfway through the program myself, and it's definitely helped me keep my skills relevant especially since certain technologies didn't exist when I got my Bachelor's in 2008.
- whycombagator 7y ago
  To get a feel for the program, or to do it on the cheap: https://www.udacity.com/georgia-tech https://www.udacity.com/georgia-tech
stormbeard 7y ago
Do you also have trouble keeping focus through the free Udacity or open courseware classes? If so, paying for classes seems like it would be a waste of money. It would probably be better to spend some time understanding why you can’t focus (lack of interest, no motivation, condition, etc.).
- non-entity 7y ago
  I definitely feel like part of it is what you listed. Heck I can hardly read linked articles fully and usually just skim them. I have a hard time doing anything that won't immediately return value (an issue that's gotten me in trouble elsewhere) and I'm just now crawling out from a bit of burnout. But when I was a kid / teen, it feels like I could learn anything. I could remember how to write in multiple programming languages, a bit of their std lib stuff etc. Now if I'm not working with it at the moment, it leaves my brain. For example I worked on some Node.js a few years ago. Nowadays, I probably couldn't write it to save my life.
  - sn9 7y ago
    It sounds like you would benefit from using spaced repetition. https://sivers.org/srs https://sivers.org/srs
rossdavidh 7y ago
I don't think school is an especially good or efficient way to learn to program. The only way we actually have to learn how to program, is to try to do it. There are online tutorials, which can help some, but classroom instruction is not especially well suited to teaching it (it's more of an apprenticeship-style skill), and empirically they do not succeed at teaching it. The graduates with CS degrees who are able to program, mostly taught themselves how by doing it, and the concepts they learned in college are as often an obstacle that they need to unlearn in the "real world" as they are useful.
sn9 7y ago
Harvard's CS50x on edx is an introduction to programming aimed at people who've literally never programmed before and has them finishing knowing C and how to use pointers. You'd have a huge advantage over the typical student and could probably easily get over any problems with pointers by taking the course.

mysterydip 7y ago

What about the various "adult/continuing education for working people" courses where you do a bit at a time? Supposed to cost less as well.

non-entity 7y ago
I haven't seen any seen any sort of programs in my state, but it might be and issue that I'm not exactly a "non-traditional" student. I'm actually college aged,I just skipped college to jump into the workforce

dominotw 7y ago

> I've written and shipped a number of business applications Then you are a programmer.

ahvetm 7y ago

I don't know if this is helpful, but for the introductory course in programming at University we followed an earlier edition of this free book: https://greenteapress.com/wp/think-python-2e/ https://greenteapress.com/wp/think-python-2e/

_pmf_ 7y ago

> I now consider myself one of these people. Please don't. Do enough interview situations at companies you don't care much about to numb you down (I did); this helps with nervousness. And sometimes you find out that you don't actually mind working there, and end up being hired (I did).

2wrist 7y ago

I feel like I am similar. I have been reading A Mind for Numbers- How to Excel at Maths and Science by Barbara Oakley and it goes in to how to develop focus and how to learn. I find it pretty applicable to software development. It has been pretty good and something I am trying to apply. I would recommend it. Good luck to you.

devinjflick 7y ago
Her Coursera course Learning to Learn is super helpful as well, I bought her book after going through her course, unfortunately it has sat on my reading list for the past 6m

rifung 7y ago

> I now consider myself one of these people. I've written and shipped a number of business applications, but have little understanding of CS concepts and was unable to complete some leetcode problems I tried a while back. I don't think fizzbuzz == leetcode? I thought fizzbuzz was like super basic can you write a for loop type question. https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ I think it's pretty common for people to not be able to do leetcode. I learned the concepts in college and usually did very well in class. I didn't even bother preparing for interviews and could still pass. However, after working for a while I don't think I'd be able to do them anymore, or at least not at the speed which is expected.

non-entity 7y ago
A fizzbuzz is something in could easily write. I think I was working on some binary tree problems at the time

jdlyga 7y ago

You shouldn't feel so bad. Leetcode problems are tough, even the easier ones, and I have 10 years experience. When I was looking for a new job last year, I could barely finish one or two of them and felt pretty discouraged. But with practice, they become a lot easier and I was knocking them out. The problems are hard because they cover an area of programming that most developers don't work with everyday. It's a separate skill set. I highly recommend Georgia Tech's online master's program. It's ranked in the top 10 of all CS programs worldwide. The total cost of the program is under $10,000, and you can take a class part time while you're working full time. I'm halfway through the program myself, and it's definitely helped me keep my skills relevant especially since certain technologies didn't exist when I got my Bachelor's in 2008.

whycombagator 7y ago
To get a feel for the program, or to do it on the cheap: https://www.udacity.com/georgia-tech https://www.udacity.com/georgia-tech

stormbeard 7y ago

Do you also have trouble keeping focus through the free Udacity or open courseware classes? If so, paying for classes seems like it would be a waste of money. It would probably be better to spend some time understanding why you can’t focus (lack of interest, no motivation, condition, etc.).

non-entity 7y ago
I definitely feel like part of it is what you listed. Heck I can hardly read linked articles fully and usually just skim them. I have a hard time doing anything that won't immediately return value (an issue that's gotten me in trouble elsewhere) and I'm just now crawling out from a bit of burnout. But when I was a kid / teen, it feels like I could learn anything. I could remember how to write in multiple programming languages, a bit of their std lib stuff etc. Now if I'm not working with it at the moment, it leaves my brain. For example I worked on some Node.js a few years ago. Nowadays, I probably couldn't write it to save my life.
- sn9 7y ago
  It sounds like you would benefit from using spaced repetition. https://sivers.org/srs https://sivers.org/srs

rossdavidh 7y ago

I don't think school is an especially good or efficient way to learn to program. The only way we actually have to learn how to program, is to try to do it. There are online tutorials, which can help some, but classroom instruction is not especially well suited to teaching it (it's more of an apprenticeship-style skill), and empirically they do not succeed at teaching it. The graduates with CS degrees who are able to program, mostly taught themselves how by doing it, and the concepts they learned in college are as often an obstacle that they need to unlearn in the "real world" as they are useful.

sn9 7y ago

Harvard's CS50x on edx is an introduction to programming aimed at people who've literally never programmed before and has them finishing knowing C and how to use pointers. You'd have a huge advantage over the typical student and could probably easily get over any problems with pointers by taking the course.