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They were sued for the recklessly mislabeled helmet and still didn't take the posting down? Even if they could've argued that they themselves were fooled by th

They were sued for the recklessly mislabeled helmet and still didn't take the posting down? Even if they could've argued that they themselves were fooled by the seller initially, not following up after the guy was killed points to a much bigger issue. Basically they just don't give a shit. Side note: I'm filled with dread just thinking about buying a motorcycle helmet from amazon.

sergiotapia 7y ago
Take the number of helmets in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
- danso 7y ago
  Pulling a listing is not the same as issuing a recall. And your arithmetic does nothing to account for the hit to reputation and trust.
  - JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
    Pretty sure it’s a spin on a Fight Club quote.
    - danso 7y ago
      Er, what's your point? That, because it comes from Fight Club it must be only in an ironic sense?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - corobo 7y ago
    It's a quote from Fight Club
- usrusr 7y ago
  This kind of cynical profit calculation has nothing to do with the problem at hand. The most likely explanation why they would not remove the listing in a regression-safe way even after getting dragged to court is that the team dealing with the lawsuit is paid for being good at lawsuits, not for avoiding them, while the team responsible for managing third party listings is paid for snacking third party listings. It's almost surprising that the listing apparently did disappear while the court was watching. Put all this into an organisation that has a multi-decade tradition of sidelining mundane, conventional company goals like striking a profit in favor of enigmatic founder strategy and nobody will ever risk rocking the boat by pointing out problems outside their job description.
CaptainZapp 7y ago
Side note: I'm filled with dread just thinking about buying a motorcycle helmet from amazon. Buy it from a reputable source? There are specialist stores herearound, which sell nothing but helmets and have staff on payroll with an actual clue. Sure, you actually have to leave the house. In return you get the possibility to actually try the helmets on display. If price is the issue I think it's exactly that general attitude, which triggered that downward spiral in quality we're observing in the last few years.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  On a motorcycle helmet, it should be reasonable to expect to pay a hefty price for something quality. It's one of those items that has to work, that one time you need it. After that, who cares - you must throw it away and buy another. Consider it just another cost of being a motorcycle owner. In such a case, you probably should want to try it on for fit, weight, balance, etc. But there are tons of other items that you either can't go someplace and purchase them (at least here in the USA), or if you can purchase them in some manner, you'll end up paying 5-10x or more for the privilege. My goto example is DC gearmotors. There are plenty of USA based manufacturers and suppliers of such. One great brand is Ametek. Unfortunately, you're going to pay for that privilege. A motor I might purchase via a vendor that is made by, say, TSINY motor (a good chinese brand I might add), will only cost me around $15-30.00 each. An equivalent motor from a USA vender and/or manufacturer? Multiply those numbers by 10 - easily. As a hobbyist - that's just insane.
hitpointdrew 7y ago
> Side note: I'm filled with dread just thinking about buying a motorcycle helmet from amazon. Don't, I wouldn't. Revzilla, sells all sorts of motorcycle gear and has a great reputation. https://www.revzilla.com/ https://www.revzilla.com/
- rabidrat 7y ago
  Where do we aggregate all these places with great reputations for nice products?
  - wasdfff 7y ago
    In your bookmarks folder.
    - rabidrat 7y ago
      I checked, it wasn't there :(
- larntz 7y ago
  +1 I've bought lots of stuff from revzilla. Satisfied customer here.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  For now. Anthony sold out to the owners of CycleStop and I expect the quality to degrade in the coming years. Similar to how Performance Bike and Nashbar have imploded. He probably saw the writing on the wall for the North American moto business with the boomers aging out and not enough consumers left to support the operation long term.

sergiotapia 7y ago

Take the number of helmets in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

danso 7y ago
Pulling a listing is not the same as issuing a recall. And your arithmetic does nothing to account for the hit to reputation and trust.
- JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
  Pretty sure it’s a spin on a Fight Club quote.
  - danso 7y ago
    Er, what's your point? That, because it comes from Fight Club it must be only in an ironic sense?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- corobo 7y ago
  It's a quote from Fight Club
usrusr 7y ago
This kind of cynical profit calculation has nothing to do with the problem at hand. The most likely explanation why they would not remove the listing in a regression-safe way even after getting dragged to court is that the team dealing with the lawsuit is paid for being good at lawsuits, not for avoiding them, while the team responsible for managing third party listings is paid for snacking third party listings. It's almost surprising that the listing apparently did disappear while the court was watching. Put all this into an organisation that has a multi-decade tradition of sidelining mundane, conventional company goals like striking a profit in favor of enigmatic founder strategy and nobody will ever risk rocking the boat by pointing out problems outside their job description.

CaptainZapp 7y ago

Side note: I'm filled with dread just thinking about buying a motorcycle helmet from amazon. Buy it from a reputable source? There are specialist stores herearound, which sell nothing but helmets and have staff on payroll with an actual clue. Sure, you actually have to leave the house. In return you get the possibility to actually try the helmets on display. If price is the issue I think it's exactly that general attitude, which triggered that downward spiral in quality we're observing in the last few years.

cr0sh 7y ago
On a motorcycle helmet, it should be reasonable to expect to pay a hefty price for something quality. It's one of those items that has to work, that one time you need it. After that, who cares - you must throw it away and buy another. Consider it just another cost of being a motorcycle owner. In such a case, you probably should want to try it on for fit, weight, balance, etc. But there are tons of other items that you either can't go someplace and purchase them (at least here in the USA), or if you can purchase them in some manner, you'll end up paying 5-10x or more for the privilege. My goto example is DC gearmotors. There are plenty of USA based manufacturers and suppliers of such. One great brand is Ametek. Unfortunately, you're going to pay for that privilege. A motor I might purchase via a vendor that is made by, say, TSINY motor (a good chinese brand I might add), will only cost me around $15-30.00 each. An equivalent motor from a USA vender and/or manufacturer? Multiply those numbers by 10 - easily. As a hobbyist - that's just insane.

hitpointdrew 7y ago

> Side note: I'm filled with dread just thinking about buying a motorcycle helmet from amazon. Don't, I wouldn't. Revzilla, sells all sorts of motorcycle gear and has a great reputation. https://www.revzilla.com/ https://www.revzilla.com/

rabidrat 7y ago
Where do we aggregate all these places with great reputations for nice products?
- wasdfff 7y ago
  In your bookmarks folder.
  - rabidrat 7y ago
    I checked, it wasn't there :(
larntz 7y ago
+1 I've bought lots of stuff from revzilla. Satisfied customer here.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
For now. Anthony sold out to the owners of CycleStop and I expect the quality to degrade in the coming years. Similar to how Performance Bike and Nashbar have imploded. He probably saw the writing on the wall for the North American moto business with the boomers aging out and not enough consumers left to support the operation long term.