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I'm the rare defender of Tim Ferriss on HN. A lot of what he says is common sense, a lot of it is crazy, a lot of it is probably wrong, but here's why I think

I'm the rare defender of Tim Ferriss on HN. A lot of what he says is common sense, a lot of it is crazy, a lot of it is probably wrong, but here's why I think he doesn't deserve the scorn given to him: Everything he says is backed up by this premise: "Don't just accept this - try it! I'm only recommending it because I found it to work." I've done his slow-carb diet before and am doing it again now. I lost 25 pounds in two months the first time, and I've lost 5 pounds this week since I restarted it. These results, which are on par with what he claimed, make me hesitant to flatly deny anything else he recommends.

9oliYQjP 16y ago
Was his diet a type of protein sparing modified fast? I think Tim Ferriss is a shining example that how you deliver your message is a factor in your overall influence just as much as what your actual message is. If your goal is to influence as many people as possible, his strategy is probably not ideal. If your goal is to influence a significant number of people in a very significant way, it's hard to argue against it: it's very effective.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  He covers that type of diet in the "living forever" chapter, I believe, if it's what I think you're talking about (having an 18 hour minimal protein "fast" once a week where you eat anything except protein, while the rest of the week you eat a very high protein diet). Or, if you mean a cyclical ketosis high protein diet, he merely mentions it in passing rather than delving into details. The primary diet he advocates is a "slow-carb diet", which means lots of legumes (the slow-carb part of the diet), lots of vegetables (usually spinach), and lots of protein, and no carbs that have a high glycemic index or insulinemic response (nearly no grains, for instance). The prototypical slow-carb meal is spinach, lentils, and eggs. It fills you up with very sturdy, nutrient dense, calories, and supposedly prevents the self-reinforcing hunger cycle that fast carbs (like white rice or bread) triggers.
SwellJoe 16y ago
I basically agree with you. The 4 Hour Body is chock full of a bunch of stuff that isn't scientifically proven, which I'm always suspicious of. But, the science is solid on a lot of the stuff he really pushes hard. The slow-carb diet is an excellent diet for weight loss and does avoid some of the problems of other rapid weight loss diets; it controls calorie intake without forcing you to count calories. I counted calories for the first week or so I was on it (in vegetarian form, which is a little bit of a challenge, to get enough protein without resorting to soy and wheat gluten products), and found I was eating about 200-300 below my resting metabolic rate every day, while eating enough to never feel hungry or get snacky. There's no way I could avoid losing weight if I'm eating significantly fewer calories than what I burn just sitting at my desk, and there is pretty solid science that the ingredients in the diet encourage loss of fat rather than loss of muscle...you're getting plenty of the stuff you need to maintain muscle mass, and adding some things to increase burning of fat for fuel. As an aside, I've found the easily testable bits (particularly the "boost testosterone and libido" chapter) to have very evident results. That may be just because I was deficient in a few of the vital nutrients, and returning to nominal made things better, but I definitely saw a change. I plan to keep Brazil nuts in the house at all times, henceforth, regardless.
- dkarl 16y ago
  Nothing related to libido and sexual performance is easily testable for an individual. Libido and sexual performance are strongly affected by psychological factors as well as physical ones.
  - SwellJoe 16y ago
    That's true. Nothing to do with the human body or mind is testable with scientific rigor on an individual basis. You have no control, and you have no way to prevent placebo effect. That doesn't make it entirely worthless, however. I know my own body, and I know what it's historically capable of. Without getting T-levels and other indicators tested at several intervals during the trials, I only have gut feelings. But, well, as with software, if it Works For Me(tm), I'm gonna keep using it.
symesc 16y ago
I read it . . . loved parts of it . . . and simultaneously thought it was most random book ever. He does give a disclaimer at the beginning, where he says the book is not meant to be read from beginning to end. When looked at that way, the work is somewhat more coherent. I bought the Kindle version, and when reading on the iPad, this work really comes into its own: it's more of a collection of linked content than a book proper. The chapter notes are important, and the links to YouTube and content on his website are useful. One the iPad, I can access that content quickly and then return to where I was reading. I will say that whatever the flaws in this work, Tim Ferris has changed two important aspects of my life forever with his two books: how I work, and now how I eat.
- fakelvis 16y ago
  Interestingly enough, I found that by structuring The 4HB like this, Tim addressed one of my main problem with his previous book, The 4HWW: The 4HWW "introduced a few interesting concepts but was pretty poorly written. Specifically because the information was scattered and the chapters didn't lead into each other." (The above is quoted as it is from an email a friend sent to me yesterday: he summed-up my thoughts better than I could have.)
calebgilbert 16y ago
The writer of the article was indeed very funny, but honestly anyone can be made to look like a buffoon if their words are taken out of context, and the results aren't examined. Personally, I'd recommend to anyone interested in health and fitness at all to grab the 4 Hour Body - there's some stuff worth reading.
RKlophaus 16y ago
I enjoyed both of Tim's books. Yes, his methods are a bit... unconventional, but the underlying principles are good: Book 1: "Do less..." Book 2: "...and measure it." Book 1 (4 Hour Work Week) is especially interesting in contrast to other productivity books; books like GTD are about cramming more into your day. 4HWW is about identifying the highest impact things and cutting out the rest.
- phob 16y ago
  "4HWW is about identifying the highest impact things and cutting out the rest." This is one of the primary aims of GTD.
alecco 16y ago
> Everything he says is backed up by this premise: "Don't just accept this - try it! I'm only recommending it because I found it to work." That statement only shows he only cares about selling his book. If the method fails you, it's your ($15) loss.
- gwern 16y ago
  FWIW, it's easily obtainable online, so it could just be a $0 loss. (The only section I've carefully read is the sleep section. It's a strange mixture. On the one hand, the Zeo advice is good - I like my Zeo and expect a lot of utility from it. On the other hand, the polyphasic sleep parts read like he is making it up completely and has never actually done it. So...)
  - patricklynch 16y ago
    I thought exactly the same thing about the polyphasic sleep section. To be fair, most of it is admittedly written by Dustin Curtis. If anyone else thought that chapter sounded familiar, it's basically this web page with minimal editing. http://dustincurtis.com/sleep.html http://dustincurtis.com/sleep.html Going back, I see Tim mentions using the "Everyman" schedule with "great success." If you were cynical, you could interpret that as 'I managed to do Everyman for a while, but the Uberman plan was impossible for me to adapt to long term.'
    - forensic 16y ago
      From that site: "It seems that all you really need to survive and feel rested is the REM phase, which is only a tiny portion of your actual sleep phases at night. " When is this meme going to die? This data from the 1930s has been thoroughly disproven. Delta sleep is essential for memory formation.
- aharrison 16y ago
  One thing that is important to keep in mind is that if you think there might actually, truly, be one piece of advice in this book, the cost plus time investment is trivial compared to the potential gains. None of his information is so bogus that you can throw it in the trash with other random "Be Slim in 24 hours" books. Also, note that the placebo effect is still an effect. Fifteen bucks to cure insomnia because you believe it will be cured rather than the ice bath having scientific backing? Sign me up! Not all information is a sure thing, sometimes it pays to start looking at the "this guy is either a genius or a madman, but it is hard to tell" section.
GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
While reading it, it read more like Freakanomics than an encyclopedia of "how to lose weight". Its more about heres some cool shit i/we've saw happening, heres what we did, try it out. He never advocates heavy drug use or any of that shit. He even mentions: "Medication = can give you weight loss, but trade off is long term damage to your body" Now heres one interesting thing... if you think "eat whatever you want and you will lose weight" is bullshit, consider this: I used to love drinking soda. Drank it by the gallons. I stopped due to weight gain. Now I don't crave it, I am mostly repulsed by it, and am quite happy just drinking water, in fact I can drink whatever I want because I want water. Over time your mindset will change, you simply got used to a lifestyle of excessive eating and thus... "I don't want to give up my donuts in the morning". Just eating fruits daily makes me repulsed by eating processed sweets (donuts and the like) because there is so much more and better flavor out there that is not due to just adding tons of sugar.
- hackerblues 16y ago
  " I used to love drinking soda. Drank it by the gallons. I stopped due to weight gain. Now I don't crave it, I am mostly repulsed by it" I've had a similar experience. A few months ago I moved overseas and as a result have drastically changed my diet, including large reductions in salt, sugar and caffeine. The results have been mixed: - I get huge sugar cravings at times which I've never had before, - I can't stand the quantities of salt I would have eaten before and it makes me physically sick, - I have no desire to consume more or less caffeine but when I do have it I can't sleep at all. I don't know what any of these particular changes mean but I've been surprised by the strength of my bodies reaction to the changed diet.
jpcx01 16y ago
"Try it, you'll see" is snake oil sales 101. Are you skeptical that my fig leaf root seed product results in a higher sex drive and whiter teeth? Don't just accept this... try it!
foljs 16y ago
> but here's why I think he doesn't deserve the scorn given to him: Everything he says is backed up by this premise: "Don't just accept this - try it! I'm only recommending it because I found it to work." Isn't this a stock phrase in EVERY and ANY telemarking ad? Conveniently, in order to "try it" you have to buy his book to find out what "it" is, in which case he already haves your money --and unlike telemarketing there is no refund policy...

9oliYQjP 16y ago

Was his diet a type of protein sparing modified fast? I think Tim Ferriss is a shining example that how you deliver your message is a factor in your overall influence just as much as what your actual message is. If your goal is to influence as many people as possible, his strategy is probably not ideal. If your goal is to influence a significant number of people in a very significant way, it's hard to argue against it: it's very effective.

SwellJoe 16y ago
He covers that type of diet in the "living forever" chapter, I believe, if it's what I think you're talking about (having an 18 hour minimal protein "fast" once a week where you eat anything except protein, while the rest of the week you eat a very high protein diet). Or, if you mean a cyclical ketosis high protein diet, he merely mentions it in passing rather than delving into details. The primary diet he advocates is a "slow-carb diet", which means lots of legumes (the slow-carb part of the diet), lots of vegetables (usually spinach), and lots of protein, and no carbs that have a high glycemic index or insulinemic response (nearly no grains, for instance). The prototypical slow-carb meal is spinach, lentils, and eggs. It fills you up with very sturdy, nutrient dense, calories, and supposedly prevents the self-reinforcing hunger cycle that fast carbs (like white rice or bread) triggers.

SwellJoe 16y ago

I basically agree with you. The 4 Hour Body is chock full of a bunch of stuff that isn't scientifically proven, which I'm always suspicious of. But, the science is solid on a lot of the stuff he really pushes hard. The slow-carb diet is an excellent diet for weight loss and does avoid some of the problems of other rapid weight loss diets; it controls calorie intake without forcing you to count calories. I counted calories for the first week or so I was on it (in vegetarian form, which is a little bit of a challenge, to get enough protein without resorting to soy and wheat gluten products), and found I was eating about 200-300 below my resting metabolic rate every day, while eating enough to never feel hungry or get snacky. There's no way I could avoid losing weight if I'm eating significantly fewer calories than what I burn just sitting at my desk, and there is pretty solid science that the ingredients in the diet encourage loss of fat rather than loss of muscle...you're getting plenty of the stuff you need to maintain muscle mass, and adding some things to increase burning of fat for fuel. As an aside, I've found the easily testable bits (particularly the "boost testosterone and libido" chapter) to have very evident results. That may be just because I was deficient in a few of the vital nutrients, and returning to nominal made things better, but I definitely saw a change. I plan to keep Brazil nuts in the house at all times, henceforth, regardless.

dkarl 16y ago
Nothing related to libido and sexual performance is easily testable for an individual. Libido and sexual performance are strongly affected by psychological factors as well as physical ones.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  That's true. Nothing to do with the human body or mind is testable with scientific rigor on an individual basis. You have no control, and you have no way to prevent placebo effect. That doesn't make it entirely worthless, however. I know my own body, and I know what it's historically capable of. Without getting T-levels and other indicators tested at several intervals during the trials, I only have gut feelings. But, well, as with software, if it Works For Me(tm), I'm gonna keep using it.

symesc 16y ago

I read it . . . loved parts of it . . . and simultaneously thought it was most random book ever. He does give a disclaimer at the beginning, where he says the book is not meant to be read from beginning to end. When looked at that way, the work is somewhat more coherent. I bought the Kindle version, and when reading on the iPad, this work really comes into its own: it's more of a collection of linked content than a book proper. The chapter notes are important, and the links to YouTube and content on his website are useful. One the iPad, I can access that content quickly and then return to where I was reading. I will say that whatever the flaws in this work, Tim Ferris has changed two important aspects of my life forever with his two books: how I work, and now how I eat.

fakelvis 16y ago
Interestingly enough, I found that by structuring The 4HB like this, Tim addressed one of my main problem with his previous book, The 4HWW: The 4HWW "introduced a few interesting concepts but was pretty poorly written. Specifically because the information was scattered and the chapters didn't lead into each other." (The above is quoted as it is from an email a friend sent to me yesterday: he summed-up my thoughts better than I could have.)

calebgilbert 16y ago

The writer of the article was indeed very funny, but honestly anyone can be made to look like a buffoon if their words are taken out of context, and the results aren't examined. Personally, I'd recommend to anyone interested in health and fitness at all to grab the 4 Hour Body - there's some stuff worth reading.

RKlophaus 16y ago

I enjoyed both of Tim's books. Yes, his methods are a bit... unconventional, but the underlying principles are good: Book 1: "Do less..." Book 2: "...and measure it." Book 1 (4 Hour Work Week) is especially interesting in contrast to other productivity books; books like GTD are about cramming more into your day. 4HWW is about identifying the highest impact things and cutting out the rest.

phob 16y ago
"4HWW is about identifying the highest impact things and cutting out the rest." This is one of the primary aims of GTD.

alecco 16y ago

> Everything he says is backed up by this premise: "Don't just accept this - try it! I'm only recommending it because I found it to work." That statement only shows he only cares about selling his book. If the method fails you, it's your ($15) loss.

gwern 16y ago
FWIW, it's easily obtainable online, so it could just be a $0 loss. (The only section I've carefully read is the sleep section. It's a strange mixture. On the one hand, the Zeo advice is good - I like my Zeo and expect a lot of utility from it. On the other hand, the polyphasic sleep parts read like he is making it up completely and has never actually done it. So...)
- patricklynch 16y ago
  I thought exactly the same thing about the polyphasic sleep section. To be fair, most of it is admittedly written by Dustin Curtis. If anyone else thought that chapter sounded familiar, it's basically this web page with minimal editing. http://dustincurtis.com/sleep.html http://dustincurtis.com/sleep.html Going back, I see Tim mentions using the "Everyman" schedule with "great success." If you were cynical, you could interpret that as 'I managed to do Everyman for a while, but the Uberman plan was impossible for me to adapt to long term.'
  - forensic 16y ago
    From that site: "It seems that all you really need to survive and feel rested is the REM phase, which is only a tiny portion of your actual sleep phases at night. " When is this meme going to die? This data from the 1930s has been thoroughly disproven. Delta sleep is essential for memory formation.
aharrison 16y ago
One thing that is important to keep in mind is that if you think there might actually, truly, be one piece of advice in this book, the cost plus time investment is trivial compared to the potential gains. None of his information is so bogus that you can throw it in the trash with other random "Be Slim in 24 hours" books. Also, note that the placebo effect is still an effect. Fifteen bucks to cure insomnia because you believe it will be cured rather than the ice bath having scientific backing? Sign me up! Not all information is a sure thing, sometimes it pays to start looking at the "this guy is either a genius or a madman, but it is hard to tell" section.

GrandMasterBirt 16y ago

While reading it, it read more like Freakanomics than an encyclopedia of "how to lose weight". Its more about heres some cool shit i/we've saw happening, heres what we did, try it out. He never advocates heavy drug use or any of that shit. He even mentions: "Medication = can give you weight loss, but trade off is long term damage to your body" Now heres one interesting thing... if you think "eat whatever you want and you will lose weight" is bullshit, consider this: I used to love drinking soda. Drank it by the gallons. I stopped due to weight gain. Now I don't crave it, I am mostly repulsed by it, and am quite happy just drinking water, in fact I can drink whatever I want because I want water. Over time your mindset will change, you simply got used to a lifestyle of excessive eating and thus... "I don't want to give up my donuts in the morning". Just eating fruits daily makes me repulsed by eating processed sweets (donuts and the like) because there is so much more and better flavor out there that is not due to just adding tons of sugar.

hackerblues 16y ago
" I used to love drinking soda. Drank it by the gallons. I stopped due to weight gain. Now I don't crave it, I am mostly repulsed by it" I've had a similar experience. A few months ago I moved overseas and as a result have drastically changed my diet, including large reductions in salt, sugar and caffeine. The results have been mixed: - I get huge sugar cravings at times which I've never had before, - I can't stand the quantities of salt I would have eaten before and it makes me physically sick, - I have no desire to consume more or less caffeine but when I do have it I can't sleep at all. I don't know what any of these particular changes mean but I've been surprised by the strength of my bodies reaction to the changed diet.

jpcx01 16y ago

"Try it, you'll see" is snake oil sales 101. Are you skeptical that my fig leaf root seed product results in a higher sex drive and whiter teeth? Don't just accept this... try it!

foljs 16y ago

> but here's why I think he doesn't deserve the scorn given to him: Everything he says is backed up by this premise: "Don't just accept this - try it! I'm only recommending it because I found it to work." Isn't this a stock phrase in EVERY and ANY telemarking ad? Conveniently, in order to "try it" you have to buy his book to find out what "it" is, in which case he already haves your money --and unlike telemarketing there is no refund policy...