4 ms·

Will the 100 m dash survive the car?

hndamien 7y ago
Running doesn't involve wheels.
choonway 7y ago
you mean, if you tie a rope from the car to the human runner behind and see whether he is able to keep up the pace with a reasonable running gait or end up being dragged and tumbling on the ground?
jobigoud 7y ago
I think it's different. In physical sports, we already have categories, because we have to overcome physical limitations. For example we have separated human sprinting into Male and Female categories forever. In boxing or martial arts we even have weight categories. So you can be good "for a woman" and it doesn't carry much stigma. For chess, it's supposed to be a purely intellectual game, and even though there are categories, the top women can play with the top men. This wouldn't make sense in 100m dash where the Women world's record is beaten by highschool boys. Essentially this places the entire human species in a second-tier category. Human champions are now good, "for a human". Humans are in the lower league and we must make sure they only play between each other because of their inferior cognitive capabilities. They are no longer competing for the genuine title of best chess player in the World, they wouldn't even qualify to enter the tournament. The World best human in history can be beaten by the equivalent of a highschooler machine player.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  I think the comparison with the 100m dash is very apt. We have machines that can obviously beat any human runner but the point of the race is to race other humans, not machines. The point and fun of chess will remain to play against other humans.
  - Kaveren 7y ago
    Cars don't change how humans run. Computer chess does change how humans play. While yes, the interesting part is watching humans play humans, the concern is that computers will influence players, be it in chess or competitive videogames, into less interesting play. I think that's a real concern as artificial intelligence improves, though right now I don't think it's a problem.
    - thom 7y ago
      Yeah, a better comparison would be the triathlon, if instead of one part being on a bike, you instead got a motorbike and every year new tech made that faster. Sure you still have 2/3 down to humans but 1/3 is sort of automated. But as you say, this doesn't seem to be an issue currently, and 2019 has been quite exciting in classical chess. I think right now there are more potential openings on the table than any time this century, as new engines (re)introduce lines that Stockfish didn't think highly of, and that can continue for quite a while.
      - Grustaf 7y ago
        Surely people don’t use computers WHILE playing? So it’s like having the coach ride in the car, yelling at the runner while he practices. Quite innocuous.
        thom 7y ago
        Sure, and remembering 20 moves of computer prep in various different lines is a skill in itself, and knowing _which_ lines to prep or innovate in is part of the metagame. But it still feels a _bit_ unnatural, no?
        Grustaf 7y ago
        Well yes, but not really much different from memorising openings from a book. Personally I find all kinds of professional sports and competition a bit boring, it was more fun when people were amateurs.

Running doesn't involve wheels.

you mean, if you tie a rope from the car to the human runner behind and see whether he is able to keep up the pace with a reasonable running gait or end up being dragged and tumbling on the ground?

jobigoud 7y ago

I think it's different. In physical sports, we already have categories, because we have to overcome physical limitations. For example we have separated human sprinting into Male and Female categories forever. In boxing or martial arts we even have weight categories. So you can be good "for a woman" and it doesn't carry much stigma. For chess, it's supposed to be a purely intellectual game, and even though there are categories, the top women can play with the top men. This wouldn't make sense in 100m dash where the Women world's record is beaten by highschool boys. Essentially this places the entire human species in a second-tier category. Human champions are now good, "for a human". Humans are in the lower league and we must make sure they only play between each other because of their inferior cognitive capabilities. They are no longer competing for the genuine title of best chess player in the World, they wouldn't even qualify to enter the tournament. The World best human in history can be beaten by the equivalent of a highschooler machine player.

mytailorisrich 7y ago
I think the comparison with the 100m dash is very apt. We have machines that can obviously beat any human runner but the point of the race is to race other humans, not machines. The point and fun of chess will remain to play against other humans.
- Kaveren 7y ago
  Cars don't change how humans run. Computer chess does change how humans play. While yes, the interesting part is watching humans play humans, the concern is that computers will influence players, be it in chess or competitive videogames, into less interesting play. I think that's a real concern as artificial intelligence improves, though right now I don't think it's a problem.
  - thom 7y ago
    Yeah, a better comparison would be the triathlon, if instead of one part being on a bike, you instead got a motorbike and every year new tech made that faster. Sure you still have 2/3 down to humans but 1/3 is sort of automated. But as you say, this doesn't seem to be an issue currently, and 2019 has been quite exciting in classical chess. I think right now there are more potential openings on the table than any time this century, as new engines (re)introduce lines that Stockfish didn't think highly of, and that can continue for quite a while.
    - Grustaf 7y ago
      Surely people don’t use computers WHILE playing? So it’s like having the coach ride in the car, yelling at the runner while he practices. Quite innocuous.
      - thom 7y ago
        Sure, and remembering 20 moves of computer prep in various different lines is a skill in itself, and knowing _which_ lines to prep or innovate in is part of the metagame. But it still feels a _bit_ unnatural, no?
        Grustaf 7y ago
        Well yes, but not really much different from memorising openings from a book. Personally I find all kinds of professional sports and competition a bit boring, it was more fun when people were amateurs.