4 ms·

I still don't understand why they call Trump a populist president when [HRC] had the bigger populist vote count.

krustyburger 7y ago
I think you may be confusing the words populist and popular.
cybersnowflake 7y ago
If Libs are SO concerned that the Will of the People must always be heard can we count on their support to bring back popular initiatives like CA Prop 187 that Judges struck down,have the census count citizens so that Blue States can't improperly gain Legislative seats, crack down on ballot harvesting (when it benefits them) and generally reverse all the things Libs have done that wouldn't have won in a straight majority vote of the population? No?
- AngryData 7y ago
  Why would the census count citizens? We already know how many citizens we got, every US citizen has documentation on their existence. If you don't exist on paper already, you aren't a citizen as far as the US government is concerned. The census is for one thing, counting the number of people actually living in each area and the very basics of what conditions they live in. Being a citizen doesn't change whether you exist or not.
  - tomatocracy 7y ago
    I’m not American so I may be wrong on this, but my understanding of US law regarding birthright citizenship is that if you’re born in the US, regardless of your parents immigration or citizenship status, you’re considered a citizen. From this it would follow that the US citizen children of undocumented immigrants may well not have documentation of that fact.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    If you wanted to know where the citizen children of a divorced and living in 2 states couple lived, how would you do that in a way that tied out for census purposes without doing a census? For retired people with houses in more than one state?
ddingus 7y ago
2016 was an establishment referendum election for many Americans. The number of people struggling economically rose to a majority during Obama. That has not gone without notice. Trump, whether it's true or not, positioned himself as an outsider. That's savvy, and potent in these times. Economic performance from both parties, in terms of ordinary working people, has been poor. It's tough for way too many people and being networked now, they know it, flat out. Clinton was seen as Obama 2.0, and that tepid performance, along with 1000+ seat party losses made for a difficult election, given Trumps positioning and willingness to work the crowds. (It's not really a debate as to whether he intended to follow up on any of that rhetoric. He had no intent other than to win.) All of that added up to populism. People responding to messages aimed at them. Again, I'm not speaking the merits of the current POTUS. Just that his messaging and positioning was solid populist on economic fronts, and moderate enough on social fronts to make for a compelling package. One must also consider very large numbers of people not voting. That share of people is actually quite large, and is larger than either party base right now. Getting those people involved basically means populist messaging right now too. It's still going to be a referendum. The economic difficulties are still in play. Anyway, maybe that helps frame it a bit. And it's just one way to look at it. There are several, likely valid. Populist may not = popular, and in this case didn't.

I think you may be confusing the words populist and popular.

If Libs are SO concerned that the Will of the People must always be heard can we count on their support to bring back popular initiatives like CA Prop 187 that Judges struck down,have the census count citizens so that Blue States can't improperly gain Legislative seats, crack down on ballot harvesting (when it benefits them) and generally reverse all the things Libs have done that wouldn't have won in a straight majority vote of the population? No?

AngryData 7y ago
Why would the census count citizens? We already know how many citizens we got, every US citizen has documentation on their existence. If you don't exist on paper already, you aren't a citizen as far as the US government is concerned. The census is for one thing, counting the number of people actually living in each area and the very basics of what conditions they live in. Being a citizen doesn't change whether you exist or not.
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  I’m not American so I may be wrong on this, but my understanding of US law regarding birthright citizenship is that if you’re born in the US, regardless of your parents immigration or citizenship status, you’re considered a citizen. From this it would follow that the US citizen children of undocumented immigrants may well not have documentation of that fact.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  If you wanted to know where the citizen children of a divorced and living in 2 states couple lived, how would you do that in a way that tied out for census purposes without doing a census? For retired people with houses in more than one state?

ddingus 7y ago

2016 was an establishment referendum election for many Americans. The number of people struggling economically rose to a majority during Obama. That has not gone without notice. Trump, whether it's true or not, positioned himself as an outsider. That's savvy, and potent in these times. Economic performance from both parties, in terms of ordinary working people, has been poor. It's tough for way too many people and being networked now, they know it, flat out. Clinton was seen as Obama 2.0, and that tepid performance, along with 1000+ seat party losses made for a difficult election, given Trumps positioning and willingness to work the crowds. (It's not really a debate as to whether he intended to follow up on any of that rhetoric. He had no intent other than to win.) All of that added up to populism. People responding to messages aimed at them. Again, I'm not speaking the merits of the current POTUS. Just that his messaging and positioning was solid populist on economic fronts, and moderate enough on social fronts to make for a compelling package. One must also consider very large numbers of people not voting. That share of people is actually quite large, and is larger than either party base right now. Getting those people involved basically means populist messaging right now too. It's still going to be a referendum. The economic difficulties are still in play. Anyway, maybe that helps frame it a bit. And it's just one way to look at it. There are several, likely valid. Populist may not = popular, and in this case didn't.