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Logistics comes down to a set of psychologies which, unless you really have past (ideally successful) experience with them, can be downright boring. For example

Logistics comes down to a set of psychologies which, unless you really have past (ideally successful) experience with them, can be downright boring. For example, dealing with cargo from dozens of ships being dumped on the shore of a given island (Falklands conflict). Whose is this pile, where is it going, how will it get there, when will it arrive, and oh by the way, it is needed yesterday, so the method must be fastest. Repeated hundreds of times. It's an important area of focus, but it requires, just like tactics, certain gifts which many neither possess nor appreciate. Also the US emerged from the 20th century as a logistics superstar, so there is a certain bias. This can negatively impact areas like innovation; logistics is not generally a friend to novelty.

hodgesrm 7y ago
> Also the US emerged from the 20th century as a logistics superstar, so there is a certain bias. This can negatively impact areas like innovation; logistics is not generally a friend to novelty. John Churchill, aka Duke of Marlborough, was a master of logistics in when it was a rare skill. It was a key component in his many victories. [1] I'm sure there are counterexamples but good logistics underlay most of the great allied victories of WW II as well as the near German victory at the start of WW I. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Churchill,_1st_Duke_of_Marlborough#Assessment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Churchill,_1st_Duke_of_Ma...
- rangibaby 7y ago
  The Axis' failure to supply their men adequately cost them at critical points during WWII, especially at Moscow and Stalingrad (loss of 500,000~1MM men)
  - KineticLensman 7y ago
    Also in North Africa, where the tactical expert Rommel repeatedly out-advanced his own supply chain allowing his over extended forces to be beaten back.
  - perseusmandate 7y ago
    And outside of the context of the battles they were dependant on food and clothes they stole from civilians, which ended up killing millions
jimmaswell 7y ago
> This can negatively impact areas like innovation; logistics is not generally a friend to novelty. I don't see why not. Any advance in transportation or communication has an impact. If drones could deliver everything that would be major for example. And obviously gps, computer path/packing optimization, and warehouse automation have been big.
- iguy 7y ago
  And containers. "The Box" is a book which I'm sure has been a regular around here? https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10724.html https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10724.html
- themodelplumber 7y ago
  Even though it's still famously not cool to logisticians, who tend to have favorite desk calculators (as do I), novelty within logistics, I hope you can see, is quite different from novelty without. Novelty without logistics often appears as pure chaos to the logistician, because their entire order of things can be destroyed with the stroke of a pen. Also, imagine that your supreme leader is a logistician by psychology, and is presented with a choice: Cast the solution to the current problem as a logistics and force stabilization issue, or cast the solution as novel strategy. Human trait psychology shows us that they will tend to err on the side of logistics and sameness (sameness preserves logistics efficiency and is its friend). This gives their enemy the upper hand to the degree that the enemy can nurture broad and dynamic conflict while tricking the logistically-advanced side into wasting logistics resources and getting comfortable. The enemy ends up forcing short-lived novelty onto the logistical opponent in order to cause paralysis.
  - mnky9800n 7y ago
    What's your favorite desk calculator. Mines the HP 48g
    - killjoywashere 7y ago
      yes! I have two HP48G calculators. And still use them (and an emulator on my phone). I even have my laminated cribsheet of trig identities in the pocket. Two giants who came out of HP's calculator divsion: Woz and Jeff Hawkins. The internal programming language is a lisp, btw.
mopsi 7y ago
The Falklands War offers an even better example of logistics than ships: Operation Black Buck extreme long-range air raids. 10+ aircraft took off and made a series of aerial refuelings to ensure that the last one of them was able to reach the target. The main aircraft had to be refueled no less than seven times on the outward journey and once on the return journey. The last tanker itself had to be refueled three times. Tanker plan: https://i.imgur.com/06n3jjb.jpg https://i.imgur.com/06n3jjb.jpg Backstory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Took essentially all the Victor tanker fleet, of which some were air to air refuelled to allow Vulcan top ups far enough out. The VC10s were only months away from being ready as tankers. Two of the books cited in that Wikipedia article are well worth reading as a pair, as apart from both being very enjoyable, they offer opposing takes of the Vulcan raids: Sharkey Ward's Sea Harrier over the Falklands and Rowland White's Vulcan 607.
- themodelplumber 7y ago
  Black Buck is a great example. The BBC radio drama version is really enjoyable too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqneOzclSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqneOzclSw

hodgesrm 7y ago

> Also the US emerged from the 20th century as a logistics superstar, so there is a certain bias. This can negatively impact areas like innovation; logistics is not generally a friend to novelty. John Churchill, aka Duke of Marlborough, was a master of logistics in when it was a rare skill. It was a key component in his many victories. [1] I'm sure there are counterexamples but good logistics underlay most of the great allied victories of WW II as well as the near German victory at the start of WW I. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Churchill,_1st_Duke_of_Marlborough#Assessment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Churchill,_1st_Duke_of_Ma...

rangibaby 7y ago
The Axis' failure to supply their men adequately cost them at critical points during WWII, especially at Moscow and Stalingrad (loss of 500,000~1MM men)
- KineticLensman 7y ago
  Also in North Africa, where the tactical expert Rommel repeatedly out-advanced his own supply chain allowing his over extended forces to be beaten back.
- perseusmandate 7y ago
  And outside of the context of the battles they were dependant on food and clothes they stole from civilians, which ended up killing millions

jimmaswell 7y ago

> This can negatively impact areas like innovation; logistics is not generally a friend to novelty. I don't see why not. Any advance in transportation or communication has an impact. If drones could deliver everything that would be major for example. And obviously gps, computer path/packing optimization, and warehouse automation have been big.

iguy 7y ago
And containers. "The Box" is a book which I'm sure has been a regular around here? https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10724.html https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10724.html
themodelplumber 7y ago
Even though it's still famously not cool to logisticians, who tend to have favorite desk calculators (as do I), novelty within logistics, I hope you can see, is quite different from novelty without. Novelty without logistics often appears as pure chaos to the logistician, because their entire order of things can be destroyed with the stroke of a pen. Also, imagine that your supreme leader is a logistician by psychology, and is presented with a choice: Cast the solution to the current problem as a logistics and force stabilization issue, or cast the solution as novel strategy. Human trait psychology shows us that they will tend to err on the side of logistics and sameness (sameness preserves logistics efficiency and is its friend). This gives their enemy the upper hand to the degree that the enemy can nurture broad and dynamic conflict while tricking the logistically-advanced side into wasting logistics resources and getting comfortable. The enemy ends up forcing short-lived novelty onto the logistical opponent in order to cause paralysis.
- mnky9800n 7y ago
  What's your favorite desk calculator. Mines the HP 48g
  - killjoywashere 7y ago
    yes! I have two HP48G calculators. And still use them (and an emulator on my phone). I even have my laminated cribsheet of trig identities in the pocket. Two giants who came out of HP's calculator divsion: Woz and Jeff Hawkins. The internal programming language is a lisp, btw.

mopsi 7y ago

The Falklands War offers an even better example of logistics than ships: Operation Black Buck extreme long-range air raids. 10+ aircraft took off and made a series of aerial refuelings to ensure that the last one of them was able to reach the target. The main aircraft had to be refueled no less than seven times on the outward journey and once on the return journey. The last tanker itself had to be refueled three times. Tanker plan: https://i.imgur.com/06n3jjb.jpg https://i.imgur.com/06n3jjb.jpg Backstory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Took essentially all the Victor tanker fleet, of which some were air to air refuelled to allow Vulcan top ups far enough out. The VC10s were only months away from being ready as tankers. Two of the books cited in that Wikipedia article are well worth reading as a pair, as apart from both being very enjoyable, they offer opposing takes of the Vulcan raids: Sharkey Ward's Sea Harrier over the Falklands and Rowland White's Vulcan 607.
themodelplumber 7y ago
Black Buck is a great example. The BBC radio drama version is really enjoyable too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqneOzclSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqneOzclSw