6 ms·

Wait, what? Maybe I'm misreading this. Are you suggesting that what ICE is doing is good?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
wang_li 7y ago
You mean enforcing the laws of the US and controlling the borders of the country? Yes, that is good. They are dealing with a situation largely created by the people illegally crossing the border. It's crazy to think that any country should maintain 4-star luxury housing sufficient to house the global population just in case. The reality is that the US is not being cruel or harming people. And ICE has upgraded the facilities in the years since the "children in cages" photos started popping up during the Obama administration. It is objectively true that the facilities are better and practices are improved. Are they something I want to live in? No. But on the other hand if people don't want to end up in detention, don't cross illegally. It's easy. Not to mention that something like 30% of the "families" crossing the border have been shown by rapid DNA testing to be unrelated. Are we supposed to let any rando who happened to buy a child free access to the country?
- bovermyer 7y ago
  You and I have very different ideas of what constitutes "better."
  - wang_li 7y ago
    My idea of better is things like walls instead of chain link fences and beds instead of sleeping pallets. Is your idea of better actual cages and thin mattresses on the floor but with the cool president instead of higher quality conditions but the crass president? That seems quite self serving and inhumane.
    - bovermyer 7y ago
      Making up a counter-argument and presenting it as if that was my suggestion is unethical and poor debate practice. I will not participate in a discussion with someone who does this. Good day.
    - uoaei 7y ago
      >Is your idea of better actual cages and thin mattresses on the floor but with the cool president instead of higher quality conditions but the crass president? False dichotomy, intellectual dishonesty, etc. How about abolishing inhumane practices, period? How about not trying to placate victims to abuse by saying "oh it's not so bad, at least you have real beds"?
      - blackflame7000 7y ago
        Victims of abuse? Do you honestly believe that people that show up at a lawful port of entry are instantly put into cages while they wait? The people that were talking about are the people that got caught trying to cross in the middle of the desert. We give them food and shelter after they just broke our laws and you call that abuse?
        openasocket 7y ago
        Crossing into the US not at a lawful port of entry to apply for asylum is legal. According to Title 8 Section 1158, in the first sentence: "Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title." https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
        wang_li 7y ago
        Not sure precisely what point you're making, but it's possible that you're saying that the intention to apply for asylum provides you with legal rights to enter the US. That's not what the law says. If you're not saying that, then what you wrote is not responsive to the person you replied to.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

You mean enforcing the laws of the US and controlling the borders of the country? Yes, that is good. They are dealing with a situation largely created by the people illegally crossing the border. It's crazy to think that any country should maintain 4-star luxury housing sufficient to house the global population just in case. The reality is that the US is not being cruel or harming people. And ICE has upgraded the facilities in the years since the "children in cages" photos started popping up during the Obama administration. It is objectively true that the facilities are better and practices are improved. Are they something I want to live in? No. But on the other hand if people don't want to end up in detention, don't cross illegally. It's easy. Not to mention that something like 30% of the "families" crossing the border have been shown by rapid DNA testing to be unrelated. Are we supposed to let any rando who happened to buy a child free access to the country?

bovermyer 7y ago
You and I have very different ideas of what constitutes "better."
- wang_li 7y ago
  My idea of better is things like walls instead of chain link fences and beds instead of sleeping pallets. Is your idea of better actual cages and thin mattresses on the floor but with the cool president instead of higher quality conditions but the crass president? That seems quite self serving and inhumane.
  - bovermyer 7y ago
    Making up a counter-argument and presenting it as if that was my suggestion is unethical and poor debate practice. I will not participate in a discussion with someone who does this. Good day.
  - uoaei 7y ago
    >Is your idea of better actual cages and thin mattresses on the floor but with the cool president instead of higher quality conditions but the crass president? False dichotomy, intellectual dishonesty, etc. How about abolishing inhumane practices, period? How about not trying to placate victims to abuse by saying "oh it's not so bad, at least you have real beds"?
    - blackflame7000 7y ago
      Victims of abuse? Do you honestly believe that people that show up at a lawful port of entry are instantly put into cages while they wait? The people that were talking about are the people that got caught trying to cross in the middle of the desert. We give them food and shelter after they just broke our laws and you call that abuse?
      - openasocket 7y ago
        Crossing into the US not at a lawful port of entry to apply for asylum is legal. According to Title 8 Section 1158, in the first sentence: "Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title." https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
        wang_li 7y ago
        Not sure precisely what point you're making, but it's possible that you're saying that the intention to apply for asylum provides you with legal rights to enter the US. That's not what the law says. If you're not saying that, then what you wrote is not responsive to the person you replied to.