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Exactly. Any time overpopulation isn't mentioned as a (or 'the') primary cause, my nictitating membranes close up and I lose interest in reading.

kilian 7y ago
I have a hard time seeing the overpopulation argument as anything other than classist and racist nonsense. It's not the vast majority in developing nations that are using up all our fossil fuels and poisoning the planet, it's us. And the damage being done in developing nations is nearly all to serve our needs in the developed world. We are the problem. See also things like https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/10/carnival-cruise-ships-produce-more-sulphur-oxide-than-all-europe-s-cars-analysis-claims https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/10/carnival-cruise-ships-pr...
- growlist 7y ago
  And yet the same institutions that are responsible for the full spectrum climate propaganda (including using children now in Saint Greta? a tactic with a pretty disreputable history...) are also promoting open borders, because once they get to the developed world those immigrants are magically not going to start contributing to climate change at the same level as everyone else in the developed world ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - kilian 7y ago
    Sorry, but that's really on the nose racism. If the developed world (that's us) fixes the way they consume and becomes sustainable, then it doesn't matter how much people consume sustainably because it'll be...you know, sustainable.
- kolbe 7y ago
  I don't know who you mean by "us," but while this distribution is somewhat top heavy, it's not something where even if the most destructive country took its emissions to zero, the world would be safe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...
- PorterDuff 7y ago
  Dunno why it's classist or racist. I'll put forth the proposition that there are too many people in the US. Imagine the greenhouse load reduction from having half the population. It wouldn't surprise me if it's easier to push population growth down than it is to have good habits, especially after the low hanging fruit is plucked.

kilian 7y ago

I have a hard time seeing the overpopulation argument as anything other than classist and racist nonsense. It's not the vast majority in developing nations that are using up all our fossil fuels and poisoning the planet, it's us. And the damage being done in developing nations is nearly all to serve our needs in the developed world. We are the problem. See also things like https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/10/carnival-cruise-ships-produce-more-sulphur-oxide-than-all-europe-s-cars-analysis-claims https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/10/carnival-cruise-ships-pr...

growlist 7y ago
And yet the same institutions that are responsible for the full spectrum climate propaganda (including using children now in Saint Greta? a tactic with a pretty disreputable history...) are also promoting open borders, because once they get to the developed world those immigrants are magically not going to start contributing to climate change at the same level as everyone else in the developed world ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- kilian 7y ago
  Sorry, but that's really on the nose racism. If the developed world (that's us) fixes the way they consume and becomes sustainable, then it doesn't matter how much people consume sustainably because it'll be...you know, sustainable.
kolbe 7y ago
I don't know who you mean by "us," but while this distribution is somewhat top heavy, it's not something where even if the most destructive country took its emissions to zero, the world would be safe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...
PorterDuff 7y ago
Dunno why it's classist or racist. I'll put forth the proposition that there are too many people in the US. Imagine the greenhouse load reduction from having half the population. It wouldn't surprise me if it's easier to push population growth down than it is to have good habits, especially after the low hanging fruit is plucked.