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A Tarahumara woman won a Mexican ultramarathon in sandals (2017)
- dgaaaaaaaaaa 7y agoI just finished reading 'Born to Run' that talks about Tarahumara and ultrarunning. I would recommend it for anyone looking for more info on this.
- renjimen 7y agoSnap! Just finished this last week too. An emotional rollercoaster and really interesting to boot. It inspired me to go out and buy a pair of thin-soled running shoes.
- jdm2212 7y agoI don't want to discourage doing that (I've been using those for ~10 years and love them), but please be very careful getting ramped up with thin-soled shoes. They tend to put a lot of strain on your calves and ankles if you aren't used to running in them. Even for you're an experienced runner and in good shape, going more than a mile or two in thin-soled shoes can sometimes really mess up -- or even strain -- your calves if you haven't used them before.
- ummonk 7y agoIs it just me or are thin-soled shoes harder to run in than barefoot?
- saalweachter 7y agoIn what respect? (There's like 12 ways this could be going, so I don't want to jump in the wrong one.)
- ummonk 7y agoJust how quickly my feet / calves get tired (I'm not a regular runner, so that isn't very long).
- frereubu 7y agoI can attest to this from personal experience. It's worth trying to gradually move from a heel-strike style to running more on the balls of your feet while using cushioned running shoes before changing thin-soled shoes. The first time I tried doing this I went too far and my calves were so stuff I couldn't walk properly for three days. Although I quite like running in thin-soled Vivo Barefoot shoes now, I'm thinking of changing to zero-drop cushioned shoes because I run on tarmac / concrete and found that thin-soled shoes seem to hurt my feet a bit more without any noticeable gain.
- bobjordan 7y agoRight about when I turned 40, I took my 15-year old daughter and her three high school friends to Disneyworld. After the first day of trying to keep up with them, I bought myself my first pair of New Balance. I'm never going back.
- juskrey 7y agoI just finished healing all of my chronic injuries after years of long distance running. I would recommend anyone to do sprints and weightlifting instead.
- ummonk 7y agoYup. We may have been born to run, but we also weren't born to live to 80... Have to consider how the activity affects our body's long term health.
- Unbeliever69 7y agoYet, we also have to consider the joy we get from running and what we would be doing if we weren't running. If you told me at the age of 40 that long-distance running would take 5 years off my life, I wouldn't care. Running, makes me happier. It helps with my mental health and because I'm a trail runner, I'm constantly out in nature visiting new locations and conquering new challenges. By contrast I also fly fish for the many of the same reasons. Fly fishing doesn't fulfill me in the same way that trail running does. But dying with a fly rod in hand or running up a mountain would be a great way to go!
- mr_overalls 7y agoPeople are different. Training regimens and recovery methods and nutrition different. It's foolish to generalize in this way.
- segmondy 7y agoI know people who are healing from chronic injuries from years of sprinting and weightlifting. ;-) Everything in moderation.
- bilbo0s 7y agoEspecially weightlifting. It boils down to this, any workout you do, you really have to do it properly. As well as, like you said, in moderation. Any reputable physical trainer or therapist will tell you that recovery days are critical. (And if a physical trainer tells you that you can do all this weightlifting or distance running without recovery days, then that's your clue that they are probably not reputable.)
- mikecarlton 7y agoI’ll second the recommendation for “Born to Run” (mentioned in the article). Amazing story and inspiring to see what human beings are capable of.
- dixego 7y agoThe Tarahumara are also known for being able to hunt deer and turkeys by running after them until the animal collapses due to exhaustion!
- davidcollantes 7y agoDo you have a source for that? I would be interested to read more about it.
- ceejayoz 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
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- HarryHirsch 7y agoPeople do that all over the world. Here's an example of a Kenyan farmer who was tired of a cheetah catching his goats: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24953910 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-24953910 It can be done by anyone in reasonable shape. Humans have outstanding stamina. Fun fact: the dog is a close second.
- moufestaphio 7y agoThere was a good BBC doc that featured this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
- scoot 7y agoReminds me of the story of a 61 year winning the inaugural Sydney to Melbourne ultra marathon in his farming boots: Short version: https://elitefeet.com/the-legend-of-cliff-young https://elitefeet.com/the-legend-of-cliff-young Long-form: https://www.smh.com.au/national/when-age-and-modesty-won-the-race-20031114-gdhs36.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/when-age-and-modesty-won-the...
- reaperducer 7y agoI recently learned that one of the elderly receptionists where I work used to do marathons in high heels. It's amazing what people can do when they really want to do something.
- crashbunny 7y agoIt's probably covered in the articles, but Cliff changed how everyone approached multi day ultra marathons. I was a kid when he hit the news and didn't appreciate what a legend he was. I only recently read about what he did and was blown away. Read the articles.
- MS90 7y agoWow, I've never heard of that dude before. What a legend! Didn't sleep. Didn't even know there was a prize!
- dcx 7y agoThat longform writeup is a great read! > [1983] was the time of the Pritikin diet, the one before the Liver Cleansing diet which was the one before the Atkins diet. It was also the era of The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner, a best-seller which inspired tens of thousands of people to join fun runs where they jostled each other in the search for solitude. Running was the new source of eternal life. Eventually, people found that their knees were unable to read all those books about running. They were forced indoors into aerobics and onto circuits.
- edgarvaldes 7y agoReminds me of the basketball team of kids from the Triqui tribe[0] [0]https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19655364/barefoot-how-basketball-opening-doors-kids-mexico-indigenous-triqui-tribe https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19655364/barefoot-how-ba...
- tedmcory77 7y agoIt’s a 50k; Ive raced with them in 100’s and theres a reason they frequently have cloth between the sandals and their feet. My personal experience if moving to zero drop shoes was positive but took about a year before my ankles felt OK.
- pacaro 7y agoThere's an REI blog article about her https://www.rei.com/blog/run/runner-lorena-ramirez-is-going-the-distance https://www.rei.com/blog/run/runner-lorena-ramirez-is-going-...
- amsully 7y agoI see many recommendations for 'Born To Run'. I want to warn that the Tarahumara rarely (if ever) run on pavement. If you switch to a minimal shoe (or want to reduce injury risk) you should be primarily running on dirt or grass. Interesting to see this on Hacker News.
- pmahoney 7y agoI'd love to read citations for this; this is a topic of interest to me. I ran barefoot for several years (on pavement and grass; stopped because occasional thorn or glass became too obnoxious) and read various peer-reviewed running injury studies, and never found anything correlating with higher injury rates other than history of past injuries and doing "too much, too soon".
- kbenson 7y agoWell, the caption of the first image in the article is: For the Oklahoma City Memorial Half Marathon, Ramírez and her brother told KFOR-TV they wore "sneakers for this race because they knew the pavement would be hard on their feet and knees." So, there's a marathon winning runner corroborating, which is something.
- mlyle 7y agoLower extremity alignment and risk of overuse injuries in runners, Wen 1997 found a significantly decreased risk of injury with less mileage on pavement. There's no ability to see the temporal relationship here, though-- people with higher reported injuries reported running more on pavement, but causation could even be in the opposite direction. Predicting lower-extremity injuries among habitual runners, Macera 1989 found an increased risk of severe injury running on concrete... for female runners only. There's a few more studies "for" and a few studies "against", so I'd say the evidence is decidedly mixed. But there's at least some cause to believe that hard surfaces could be worse. As far as minor complaints, though, who knows. I strongly believe that I feel worse after running (with athletic shoes) on concrete than softer surfaces like dirt path, etc. Another thing which could be related: there's strong evidence that terrain can be too flat/uniform and resultant repetitive stress effects screw people up. A degenerate case of this is treadmill running.
- flyGuyOnTheSly 7y agoI love the concept behind this. I have thought for a while now that we are not necessarily guaranteed to see the best basketball players in the world perform in the NBA, nor are we guaranteed to see the fastest runners in the world win the 100 meter dash in the Summer Olympics. We can only be sure that we are witnessing the best basketball players in the world who are motivated by money, and the fastest runners who are motivated by fame.
- FanaHOVA 7y ago> We can only be sure that we are witnessing the best basketball players in the world who are motivated by money The best players in the NBA are not just motivated by money. They're motivated to be recognized as one of the best to ever do it.
- kbenson 7y agoI think it depends on whether by the "best" you mean the best potential person, or best current person. At the levels these sports are competed at now, I think natural talent by itself can in no way stand at the top. It takes natural talent and then dedicating a significant portion of your life to cultivating that talent. So, does the potential for a faster runner exist out there now? Undoubtedly (this is a safe bet, since records are still being broken). Is some street ball player going to walk in and dominate the NBA, or some weekend runner going to storm the Olympics next time? I doubt it.
- dooglius 7y agoConsidering that both of these things require years of training and dedication to be the best, I think it is quite likely that only career basketball players and runners are going to be the best.
- moufestaphio 7y ago>We can only be sure that we are witnessing the best basketball players in the world who are motivated by money, and the fastest runners who are motivated by fame. I think that's a pretty big stretch. First of all, not all basketball players/runners are motivated by money/fame. If you are really good at something competitive you want to do it against other people who are also good. So it's highly likely that the best people want to compete against others who are at there level. Also with all the modern training, dieting and everything modern athletes do, I think it's pretty laughable to think someone can just 'walk up' and be better than them.
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- starpilot 7y ago> She doesn't have energy sweets or gel or the expensive shoes so many use for running in the mountains. I've really been wondering if gels actually help. Could honey work just as well? It's cheaper and tastes much better.
- ineedtosleep 7y agoMost contain stimulants and maybe some amino acids, so they're not really identical. It's all about how your body deals with those chemicals, especially when under exercise stress.
- hangonhn 7y agoA lot of it is mental. There's been studies that shown that if you simply giving someone under exertion something sweet tasting (but with no calories), it will still boost their performance. That study was done on pro level cyclists. I think you do have to replenish eventually. Around mile 20 for me but I think it depends a lot on your pace, how you've trained, and overall distance. Gels and chews are very compact so it's easy to carry on long runs.
- alwayseasy 7y agoIt's really about getting sugar the most efficiently and rapidly into your body without upsetting the stomach. Anecdotally it feels like I really do get energy boosts. Honey could work just as well I recon the difference is around digesting it.
- flr03 7y agoEnergy gels with honey exist. It goes into your blood very quickly and tend to create a peak of sugar after which you don't feel very well. So better to have this type of quick sugar towards the end of the race.
- bmj 7y agoThere are plenty of recipes out there. Molasses is a popular addition because of its potassium content.
- Unbeliever69 7y ago
- momentmaker 7y agoI love my Earthrunners! I almost wear these everyday except if it's raining or too cold outside.
- dwyerm 7y agoI did race operations for the Leadville Trail 100 for a decade, including when the Tarahumara first raced. The first year, Rockport was a sponsor and loaded them up with their best trail running shoes. The Tarahumara didn't perform well, although that could also be because of other gear issues and that they were not sure that the aid stations were for them. The second year, they stopped by the local landfill for old car tires, and made sandals from them. They set records that year. It was a bit of an embarrassment to the title sponsor...
- themodelplumber 7y agoI saw something similar in the NHK video documentary about Japan's Ultra Trail Mount Fuji race (100 mi.). At just after 3:00 in the video[0] you can see two Mexican entrants of the Rarámuri people. However, one of them is wearing Nike shoes and another wears the traditional sandals. The results I thought were a bit embarrassing for Nike, no matter the exact cause (22 minutes; 29 minutes for the sandals result). I was however really intrigued by the maize-based powder supplement drink they seem to enjoy. (Pinore, 15:00 in the video) 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PsKvPTM8po https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PsKvPTM8po
- xtracto 7y agoI think it is Pinole ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinole ). It is a very tasty powder we have here in Mexico that we use to do some type of milkshakes. I loved it as a kid.
- stronglikedan 7y agoPinole indeed. FTFA, "To keep hydrated, the Tarahumara runners eat pinole, a corn paste, which is also part of their daily diet."
- mgr86 7y agoFrom the cultivated crops the Tarahumaras prepare the following foods: Pinole, finely ground corn meal, is the most common. The meal is mixed with water and the mixture is drunk. A trait shared by many tribes of northern Mexico and the American Southwest, pinole is an ideal preparation for the highly mobile Tarahumara who carries, in a pouch slung under his arm, enough pinole to last him as much as a week while he is on the trail. Esquiate is similar to pinole but is prepared slightly differently, and, not being a dry meal like pinole, is not as transportable. It too is mixed with water and drunk. It is consumed as commonly as pinole and with this latter constitutes probably 75% of the Tarahumara?s diet. Other corn preparations, used less frequently, are atole (gruel), roasting ears, tortillas, tamales, and the cornflower. Source: Champion, J. R. (1970) ‘Study In Culture Persistence: The Tarahumaras Of Northwestern Mexico’. Ann Arbor, Michigan: University Microfilms. Available at: https://ehrafworldcultures.yale.edu/document?id=nu33-013 https://ehrafworldcultures.yale.edu/document?id=nu33-013 (Accessed: 22 August 2019).
- williesleg 7y agoI run like hell in the nude.
- jurasource 7y agoI've been running ultras for a number of years now, and have suffered from many injuries, the worst being a stress fracture in my hip. The last time I saw a sports doctor, he gave me the best advice to date: "Run, but not every day, on grass if you can" That was over two years ago, and I've been racing and running happily injury free since.
- tootie 7y agoUltras just seem like the ultimate in self-torture to me. Then again, I have very flat feet and am extremely prone to shin splints so all running is self-torture to me.
- yubiox 7y ago7 hours to run 31 miles? Is that right?
- cafard 7y agoThat's what it says, and No, 7 hours for that distance is not particularly fast. Of course it doesn't say what the terrain is like.
- psychrometer 7y agoThat averages to 4.4 miles per hour or 13.62 minutes per mile.
- jmull 7y agoIt's useless to try to judge that pace. It depends on the terrain, which is hard to get a feel for from afar. We can assume there's elevation and uneven terrain, but to what extent? But first out of 500 ultra-marathoners from 12 countries means it's probably a very good pace.
- secabeen 7y agoThe body language of the last picture in that article is terrible. He's grabbing her on both arms, firmly, and her expression is totally neutral. She's stronger and faster than you, dude, back off.
- _underfl0w_ 7y agoI'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed that, but also that seems to be her "default face". Looks at the other photo of her being victorious. Stoic, almost.
- secabeen 7y agoYeah, hopefully that's not because she's just commonly surrounded by men like that.
- DenisM 7y agoA few words in opposition to barefoot running: My podiatrist told me that aspiring barefoot runners make up a large part of his clientele, and in his professional opinion this is a dangerous errand. People who were running barefoot since early childhood (including various native peoples of the world) maybe fine because they spent formative decades of their lives acclimating to the style and growing stronger muscles/ligaments/joints/bones/skin, but everyone else is running a high risk of sustaining an injury (and enriching my doctor in the process). Vibran Five Finger was targeted by a class-action lawsuit stemming form lack of scientific proof of their barefoot claims, and they settled. Vibram stood to gain a lot from showing the proof, and the fact that they didn't have anything convincing on hand is quite damning. High risk is obviously not certainty, and people who did derive benefit from the method are likely to speak up, while those who failed are likely to have moved on and say nothing. Survivor bias alert. Barefoot running has a strong "appeal to nature fallacy" factor. Doesn't make it wrong, but this sort of bias should be noted when calibrating the level of excitement for a particular subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature If you're gong to do it anyway at least consult a podiatrist about early sign of trouble so you know when you're going down the wrong path. This would be way more useful than acquiring your advice from various internet forums. My doc refused to answer the question about safe running techniques and told me to get a bike instead. Which I did.
- pcunite 7y agoThis is true because people want "instant" change. I've been slowly converting to a better running lifestyle and I'm now running in ZeroDrop shoes. I think going down to super thin soles is a receipt for disaster for the average office dweller who wants to run on the weekend!
- superpermutat0r 7y agoSimilar to how Masai eat meat blood and milk their whole lives, develop severe atherosclerosis but their blood vessels adapt through childhood so the stiffness is countered with better blood vessels. A 40 year old westerner embarking on a carnivore diet might be missing the necessary adaptations to survive.
- pcunite 7y agoI have a plan to keep running into my 80's. But of that is foot, knee, and hip mechanics. To that end, I use Altra branded running shoes.
- snissn 7y agoBig ups to all athletes that were involved with this, but a 50k is only about 10% longer than a regular marathon and feels awkward to get "ultramarathon" status. Great athleticism regardless, I just intuitively thought ultra means double marathon or above
- Pfhreak 7y agoIsn't ultramarathon just the category for anything longer than a marathon?
- ericol 7y ago50K is actually closer to 20% more than a regular marathon. Also, as per wikipedia: An ultramarathon, also called ultra distance or ultra running, is any footrace longer than the traditional marathon length of 42.195 kilometres (26.219 mi).
- frereubu 7y agoMarathons are also generally on flatter ground aren't they? This is trail running, so off-road with much more variable ground to deal with, and often much more climbing and descending (although I don't know this race in particular).
- kumarm 7y agoRecently there was news about untrained 19 year old from India running 100 meters in 11 seconds barefoot. https://twitter.com/ChouhanShivraj/status/1162416398867423232 https://twitter.com/ChouhanShivraj/status/116241639886742323...
- snambi 7y agoThis is a blow for shoe companies. They create an impression that Shoes are mandatory for running. Simply not true. In fact I found shoes to be very inconvenient, except in bad weather such as snow or cold.
- alienshore 7y agoMaybe it's their natural shyness but I always wonder why some of the older tarahumara runners or someone close don't organize them like the kenians do for road running, but in trail runs across USA and Mexico. They can easily score some victories/podiums and share the won money/goods for their benefit.
- dev_dull 7y ago> “They are naturally the best runners in Mexico,” says Jiménez. In fact, the clue is in their name, Rarámuri. Rara means feet and muri means to run. The Rarámuri are a people of “light feet” or “running feet” I can’t help but feel that in running, our biology starts to bleed through in the nature versus nurture debates. Clearly some people and groups of people have both the exceptional nature and nurture to do things that might otherwise seem impossible.
- noisy_boy 7y ago> To keep hydrated, the Tarahumara runners eat pinole, a corn paste, which is also part of their daily diet. Expect ethically sourced organic pinole products to hit the shelves anytime now.
- dang 7y agoRelated from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20745301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20745301
- DoreenMichele 7y agoBecause of my medical condition, I live in sandals and have for years. If I wear closed shoes, my feet soon smell and itch. When I first went homeless, I thought I would have to get "real shoes" at some point or I would lose toes to frost bite. We crossed the country on foot and catching tides and we were above 7000 feet above sea level three times. Even with snow on the ground and freezing temps, I never did get "real shoes" though I ended up with some temporary skin damage and wore socks for a few weeks to protect me feet and let them heal. I don't expect to, say, live in Alaska ever. But it's been quite surprising how well sandals and similar slip on type shoes work in winter if the local climate isn't too severely cold.
- rurban 7y agoThey have been known for this since at least 1867 for their first organized ultramarathon, and then finally attracted the world public in the 20s. http://ultrarunninghistory.com/tarahumara/ http://ultrarunninghistory.com/tarahumara/