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> When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of the

by koolba 7y ago

> When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of the previous 4 months, felt like a full night's sleep but this is sleep deprivation territory, specially given the fact that it was 7 days a week. Assuming you have the space for it, I never understood couples that insist on both parents being woken up every night by a newborn. Much better for everyone involved to trade off nightly so that the other person can get a full nights rest. I'm 99% certain that no baby cares that only one parent is being disturbed.

saganus 7y ago
I'm not a parent so my knowledge here is pretty scarce, but what I've understood from friends that have kids, is that when a baby wakes up, both parents wake up due to instinct (i.e. is the baby ok?). So I wonder if what you suggest would require some accomodation. E.g. have the 'on-call' parent sleep in the same room as the baby, and the other one can sleep in another room with the door closed. Is this what you mean by saying that both parent need not be waken up? or are there some other methods that would help out with this?
- phalangion 7y ago
  I think early on with a new baby, both parents wake up more due to novelty than instinct. When you're used to not having a crying child in the middle of the night, suddenly having one takes some adjustment. Since my wife nursed the kids, our arrangement was that she would be up with babies at night almost every time, and I would be up with them in the morning when they decided that 5am was time to be up for the day. Over time, I stopped waking up to baby cries at night, but I am now hyper-attuned to child noises from 5-7am.
- koolba 7y ago
  > So I wonder if what you suggest would require some accomodation. E.g. have the 'on-call' parent sleep in the same room as the baby, and the other one can sleep in another room with the door closed. > Is this what you mean by saying that both parent need not be waken up? or are there some other methods that would help out with this? That's what I meant by "Assuming you have the space for it...". If the baby is in a separate room and there's space for a bed or mattress, whoever is "on-call" stays there and the other parent gets an uninterrupted nights sleep. Or the reverse and the "resting" parent goes and sleeps on the couch. 7-8 hours uninterrupted on a couch wins over repeated interruptions on a bed. Same system works if you have a grandma visiting to take over for a night. There's no merit badge given out for everyone being equally sleep deprived. It's just worse for everyone, including the baby. If the mother is directly breast feeding then likely she's going to be taking the heavier end of this load. If the baby is formula fed or she's pumping, there's more leeway to switch off.
- rconti 7y ago
  I'm not even sure you need the door closed or a large house. Particularly when sleep-deprived, I think you'll start sleeping right through it, as soon as you adjust to the fact that someone is closer to the problem, and managing it to the best of their ability. Your brain is great at figuring out what needs to wake you and what you can sleep through. I sleep right through my wife's alarms going off, and her phone is merely on the other side of the bed. She, in turn, sleeps through my phone's alarm and my annoying klaxon on the dresser. Obviously this doesn't happen on the first night or five, but you get used to it.
jly 7y ago
Logically this makes sense but it can be tricky to implement successfully for everyone. For breast-fed infants, it may be the case that mom has to be more frequently involved in the overnight care. It makes sense for dad to get as much sleep as possible in this case, but that can lead to resentment and other issues. My wife and I traded off as you indicated but that was no picnic, either. We found it easier to split wake-ups during a night so that each of us could get a manageable amount of sleep, vs one person waking up every couple hours all night long. No matter how you slice the time up, nobody is going to 'well-rested' when there are only two people taking care of an infant.
- koolba 7y ago
  > Logically this makes sense but it can be tricky to implement successfully for everyone. For breast-fed infants, it may be the case that mom has to be more frequently involved in the overnight care. It makes sense for dad to get as much sleep as possible in this case, but that can lead to resentment and other issues. Embracing marriage as a team sport goes a long way to avoiding petty resentment. It's also standard practice for the resting parent to ensure there is plenty of coffee after the non-resting parent's final 37 minute power nap.
  - jly 7y ago
    > Embracing marriage as a team sport goes a long way to avoiding petty resentment. Fully in agreement. Good communication and empathy in marriage are paramount to successfully raising kids. I'm just saying even the most understanding people can hit a breaking point after long enough without sleep, especially without a lot of external help.
  - swsieber 7y ago
    Yes. And post-partum anxiety and depression as well as chronic sleep deprivation go a long way to engendering petty resentment, as well as other insecurities that could be mitigated by the presence of the other spouse at night. I have a leg up working from home though - I just take the baby at the start of the day for several hours so my wife gets another good sleep cycle or two in, which makes my wife a lot more open to me sleeping in a different room. My snoring contributes to that too though - my baby sleeps better without me in the room!
philwelch 7y ago
I don’t have kids but my wife and I have discussed having an explicit shift rotation where one of us stays home with the baby during the day while the other works, sleeps in the early evening when the working parent gets home, and gets up at night when the working parent goes to bed. I always wonder if it would actually work.
- themoat 7y ago
  My wife and I did that for 2 years. It works, but like everything, there are trade offs. It's great that you know your child is being raised by you and your partner. You aren't offloading the child to a babysitter and trusting daycare to raise them with your principles or just to your level of care. The downside is crossing paths with your spouse in a 5 minute handoff. Rushed dinners to cram in as much adult interaction as you can before you do bedtime or rush to work. There are times when you meet up at a McDonalds to eat and trade cars. I don't think we would have done it differently, but there were definitely periods of loneliness that both of us felt.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    It took two years before the baby slept through the night? That's almost more terrifying.
MikeTheGreat 7y ago
Hey, just as a friendly heads-up: If you're ever talking with friends who have kids (particularly young kids)(particularly newborns like you're talking about here) you might do better by phrasing this as a question instead of a fact. ("Hey, assuming you have the space for it, why not trade off nightly?") Nicest response you'll get from what you said is a polite nod and then they change the topic, the most useful would be a polite but pointed jest about how you obviously don't have kids, and at worst you'll do lasting damage to a friendship. Trust me, nobody who's getting this little sleep wants to be told how to do it better (unless they've asked you, specifically, for your advice on this,specifically) :)
- koolba 7y ago
  Bah! A life of parsing words and walking on eggshells is no fun. Speak your mind and give people the benefit of the doubt. In my experience they appreciate it.
  - deanCommie 7y ago
    Your experience is wrong. People don't appreciate it, and are likely working to avoid you. "Walking on eggshells" is a similar dog whistle to "political correctness". Consider instead thinking about it as "having empathy that other people have a different life, priorities, and experiences than yourself, and adapt your patterns to not make premature judgements or conclusions". "Speaking your mind" is overrated. Your mind isn't that important or interesting. (Not attacking YOU here - this applies to everyone, myself included)
    - fnord123 7y ago
      There are situations where you are correct but I think your brush is too broad. Sometimes unsolicited advice is welcome but there is an art that some people have when giving it.

by koolba 7y ago

saganus 7y ago

I'm not a parent so my knowledge here is pretty scarce, but what I've understood from friends that have kids, is that when a baby wakes up, both parents wake up due to instinct (i.e. is the baby ok?). So I wonder if what you suggest would require some accomodation. E.g. have the 'on-call' parent sleep in the same room as the baby, and the other one can sleep in another room with the door closed. Is this what you mean by saying that both parent need not be waken up? or are there some other methods that would help out with this?

phalangion 7y ago
I think early on with a new baby, both parents wake up more due to novelty than instinct. When you're used to not having a crying child in the middle of the night, suddenly having one takes some adjustment. Since my wife nursed the kids, our arrangement was that she would be up with babies at night almost every time, and I would be up with them in the morning when they decided that 5am was time to be up for the day. Over time, I stopped waking up to baby cries at night, but I am now hyper-attuned to child noises from 5-7am.
koolba 7y ago
> So I wonder if what you suggest would require some accomodation. E.g. have the 'on-call' parent sleep in the same room as the baby, and the other one can sleep in another room with the door closed. > Is this what you mean by saying that both parent need not be waken up? or are there some other methods that would help out with this? That's what I meant by "Assuming you have the space for it...". If the baby is in a separate room and there's space for a bed or mattress, whoever is "on-call" stays there and the other parent gets an uninterrupted nights sleep. Or the reverse and the "resting" parent goes and sleeps on the couch. 7-8 hours uninterrupted on a couch wins over repeated interruptions on a bed. Same system works if you have a grandma visiting to take over for a night. There's no merit badge given out for everyone being equally sleep deprived. It's just worse for everyone, including the baby. If the mother is directly breast feeding then likely she's going to be taking the heavier end of this load. If the baby is formula fed or she's pumping, there's more leeway to switch off.
rconti 7y ago
I'm not even sure you need the door closed or a large house. Particularly when sleep-deprived, I think you'll start sleeping right through it, as soon as you adjust to the fact that someone is closer to the problem, and managing it to the best of their ability. Your brain is great at figuring out what needs to wake you and what you can sleep through. I sleep right through my wife's alarms going off, and her phone is merely on the other side of the bed. She, in turn, sleeps through my phone's alarm and my annoying klaxon on the dresser. Obviously this doesn't happen on the first night or five, but you get used to it.

jly 7y ago

Logically this makes sense but it can be tricky to implement successfully for everyone. For breast-fed infants, it may be the case that mom has to be more frequently involved in the overnight care. It makes sense for dad to get as much sleep as possible in this case, but that can lead to resentment and other issues. My wife and I traded off as you indicated but that was no picnic, either. We found it easier to split wake-ups during a night so that each of us could get a manageable amount of sleep, vs one person waking up every couple hours all night long. No matter how you slice the time up, nobody is going to 'well-rested' when there are only two people taking care of an infant.

koolba 7y ago
> Logically this makes sense but it can be tricky to implement successfully for everyone. For breast-fed infants, it may be the case that mom has to be more frequently involved in the overnight care. It makes sense for dad to get as much sleep as possible in this case, but that can lead to resentment and other issues. Embracing marriage as a team sport goes a long way to avoiding petty resentment. It's also standard practice for the resting parent to ensure there is plenty of coffee after the non-resting parent's final 37 minute power nap.
- jly 7y ago
  > Embracing marriage as a team sport goes a long way to avoiding petty resentment. Fully in agreement. Good communication and empathy in marriage are paramount to successfully raising kids. I'm just saying even the most understanding people can hit a breaking point after long enough without sleep, especially without a lot of external help.
- swsieber 7y ago
  Yes. And post-partum anxiety and depression as well as chronic sleep deprivation go a long way to engendering petty resentment, as well as other insecurities that could be mitigated by the presence of the other spouse at night. I have a leg up working from home though - I just take the baby at the start of the day for several hours so my wife gets another good sleep cycle or two in, which makes my wife a lot more open to me sleeping in a different room. My snoring contributes to that too though - my baby sleeps better without me in the room!

philwelch 7y ago

I don’t have kids but my wife and I have discussed having an explicit shift rotation where one of us stays home with the baby during the day while the other works, sleeps in the early evening when the working parent gets home, and gets up at night when the working parent goes to bed. I always wonder if it would actually work.

themoat 7y ago
My wife and I did that for 2 years. It works, but like everything, there are trade offs. It's great that you know your child is being raised by you and your partner. You aren't offloading the child to a babysitter and trusting daycare to raise them with your principles or just to your level of care. The downside is crossing paths with your spouse in a 5 minute handoff. Rushed dinners to cram in as much adult interaction as you can before you do bedtime or rush to work. There are times when you meet up at a McDonalds to eat and trade cars. I don't think we would have done it differently, but there were definitely periods of loneliness that both of us felt.
- philwelch 7y ago
  It took two years before the baby slept through the night? That's almost more terrifying.

MikeTheGreat 7y ago

Hey, just as a friendly heads-up: If you're ever talking with friends who have kids (particularly young kids)(particularly newborns like you're talking about here) you might do better by phrasing this as a question instead of a fact. ("Hey, assuming you have the space for it, why not trade off nightly?") Nicest response you'll get from what you said is a polite nod and then they change the topic, the most useful would be a polite but pointed jest about how you obviously don't have kids, and at worst you'll do lasting damage to a friendship. Trust me, nobody who's getting this little sleep wants to be told how to do it better (unless they've asked you, specifically, for your advice on this,specifically) :)

koolba 7y ago
Bah! A life of parsing words and walking on eggshells is no fun. Speak your mind and give people the benefit of the doubt. In my experience they appreciate it.
- deanCommie 7y ago
  Your experience is wrong. People don't appreciate it, and are likely working to avoid you. "Walking on eggshells" is a similar dog whistle to "political correctness". Consider instead thinking about it as "having empathy that other people have a different life, priorities, and experiences than yourself, and adapt your patterns to not make premature judgements or conclusions". "Speaking your mind" is overrated. Your mind isn't that important or interesting. (Not attacking YOU here - this applies to everyone, myself included)
  - fnord123 7y ago
    There are situations where you are correct but I think your brush is too broad. Sometimes unsolicited advice is welcome but there is an art that some people have when giving it.