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That era also had fantastic art in arcade games, so don't deny that things like Kim Kaphwan's pants exist https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence

That era also had fantastic art in arcade games, so don't deny that things like Kim Kaphwan's pants exist https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulogy-to-kim-kaphwans-pants-king-of-fighters.59245/ https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulo... I'd say today's pixel art generally doesn't hit the heights that it did in SF3 or some of the mid KoF games

lazyjones 7y ago
> https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulo...* https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulo... > >Current technology isn't even close to being enough to replicate this with real-time physics. The claim on that page, that those detailed cloth animations were superior and somehow lost in the transition to 3D games, is bunk though. Modern games are very detailed, e.g. https://youtu.be/ot_sYoqe_2w?t=2355 https://youtu.be/ot_sYoqe_2w?t=2355
- magashna 7y ago
  That claim is subjective, and detail != style. A couple floppy rags are not comparable to the big flowing pants on a gi.
  - jcranberry 7y ago
    The claim that current technology is insufficient to replicate it isn't subjective. Perhaps the point should be that we lost sense for a particular aesthetic during the transition to 3d graphics techniques.
    - chongli 7y ago
      Perhaps the point should be that we lost sense for a particular aesthetic during the transition to 3d graphics techniques. I think this mirrors the transition from painting to photography over a century ago. As photography grew to dominate everyday images, painters had to go in a different direction to distinguish themselves. It's no coincidence that art became more and more abstract as photography grew.
      - jcranberry 7y ago
        There's probably a certain amount of truth to that. It seems like those animations sit in some kind of sweet spot between 'realism', 'beauty' and 'being visibly pixellated'. Since pixellation seems to mostly be used for the nostalgia factor as opposed to either realism or beauty such animations really must be a niche interest
    - magashna 7y ago
      I don't think that's true. While physics for clothing have gotten a lot better, it's a lot of visual flash that seem easier to work like scarves, coat tails, pieces that hang down, etc. I can't recall seeing the kind of bounce that those old school pixel art pants have. Those Aladdin/MC Hammer pants have a weight and shape that I imagine is still really difficult to replicate well. But maybe I just haven't seen such an example yet.
      - ozmodiar 7y ago
        In the few recent fighting games I can think of, Tekken 7 and Mortal Kombat 11, even with relatively light use of physics based fabrics I still see a lot of wonky movement/fabric clipping and getting stuck inside bodies. I definitely don’t think we’re quite there yet.
      - jcranberry 7y ago
        Consumer hardware probably isn't fast enough to have that level of natural movement and detailed lighting in real time for physics-based clothing. So I agree that the claim is true. Of course, the animated clothing in those pants wasn't from a physics engine. I'm sure similar results can be accomplished in 3D if they're not phsyics-based.
- tkxxx7 7y ago
  > Modern games are very detailed, Detailing them is one thing, replicating them with physics is another (false equivalence from the author).
- nvarsj 7y ago
  The 2d animations look fluid and realistic. The Horizon Zero Dawn clip you linked looks simplistic in comparison - floppy 2d textures glued onto a character. The detail is much higher of course, but the realism is much worse. It's interesting how 2d animators could capture things that existing 3d tech can't even scratch the surface of.
Shorel 7y ago
That link has a fun and informative video.
airstrike 7y ago
That link (and the video in it) are so good you should submit it directly! Thanks!

lazyjones 7y ago

> https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulo...* https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulo... > >Current technology isn't even close to being enough to replicate this with real-time physics. The claim on that page, that those detailed cloth animations were superior and somehow lost in the transition to 3D games, is bunk though. Modern games are very detailed, e.g. https://youtu.be/ot_sYoqe_2w?t=2355 https://youtu.be/ot_sYoqe_2w?t=2355

magashna 7y ago
That claim is subjective, and detail != style. A couple floppy rags are not comparable to the big flowing pants on a gi.
- jcranberry 7y ago
  The claim that current technology is insufficient to replicate it isn't subjective. Perhaps the point should be that we lost sense for a particular aesthetic during the transition to 3d graphics techniques.
  - chongli 7y ago
    Perhaps the point should be that we lost sense for a particular aesthetic during the transition to 3d graphics techniques. I think this mirrors the transition from painting to photography over a century ago. As photography grew to dominate everyday images, painters had to go in a different direction to distinguish themselves. It's no coincidence that art became more and more abstract as photography grew.
    - jcranberry 7y ago
      There's probably a certain amount of truth to that. It seems like those animations sit in some kind of sweet spot between 'realism', 'beauty' and 'being visibly pixellated'. Since pixellation seems to mostly be used for the nostalgia factor as opposed to either realism or beauty such animations really must be a niche interest
  - magashna 7y ago
    I don't think that's true. While physics for clothing have gotten a lot better, it's a lot of visual flash that seem easier to work like scarves, coat tails, pieces that hang down, etc. I can't recall seeing the kind of bounce that those old school pixel art pants have. Those Aladdin/MC Hammer pants have a weight and shape that I imagine is still really difficult to replicate well. But maybe I just haven't seen such an example yet.
    - ozmodiar 7y ago
      In the few recent fighting games I can think of, Tekken 7 and Mortal Kombat 11, even with relatively light use of physics based fabrics I still see a lot of wonky movement/fabric clipping and getting stuck inside bodies. I definitely don’t think we’re quite there yet.
    - jcranberry 7y ago
      Consumer hardware probably isn't fast enough to have that level of natural movement and detailed lighting in real time for physics-based clothing. So I agree that the claim is true. Of course, the animated clothing in those pants wasn't from a physics engine. I'm sure similar results can be accomplished in 3D if they're not phsyics-based.
tkxxx7 7y ago
> Modern games are very detailed, Detailing them is one thing, replicating them with physics is another (false equivalence from the author).
nvarsj 7y ago
The 2d animations look fluid and realistic. The Horizon Zero Dawn clip you linked looks simplistic in comparison - floppy 2d textures glued onto a character. The detail is much higher of course, but the realism is much worse. It's interesting how 2d animators could capture things that existing 3d tech can't even scratch the surface of.

Shorel 7y ago

That link has a fun and informative video.

airstrike 7y ago

That link (and the video in it) are so good you should submit it directly! Thanks!