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Oh man, either you have a completely different experience than me or you don't know what it's like working elsewhere. I'm Israeli & spent the last 6 years livi
by ido 7y ago
Oh man, either you have a completely different experience than me or you don't know what it's like working elsewhere.
I'm Israeli & spent the last 6 years living in Germany. I lived in Austria for 8 years before that. Israel is quite a dog-eat-dog hyper-capitalism kind of economy, maybe not to the wild extent of the US but definitely closer to it than to Germany & Austria (the two countries have very similar culture/attitudes in this particular area).
While there are plenty of asshole bosses here, the kind of attitude common in hyper-capitalist countries is not comparable. Even the assholes will not dare publicly espouse the kind of Libertarian anti-working-class vitriol in a Berlin working place (or even outside of it).
How often did you hear your German boss say that the state should not offer welfare as it's just supporting laziness? Or that "taxes are theft"? That whatever work "the free market" doesn't directly support via consumers spending money should not exist (e.g. publicly funded theatre)?
- WalterBright 7y ago> Libertarian anti-working-class vitriol Libertarians are not anti-working-class.
- ido 7y agoMaybe anti-poor is a better description? Could also be that I only notice the assholes and the milder form of libertarians just don't stick out as much :)
- WalterBright 7y ago> Maybe anti-poor is a better description? No. Libertarians are against any sort of class system (i.e. legal privileges for certain groups). They are neither anti-rich nor anti-poor. Of course, there are libertarians who are jerks, but that isn't what Libertarianism is about. Also, most people only hear about Libertarianism from non-Libertarians, hence they only hear negative things about it. Libertarianism is mainly about people being free to choose, and being responsible for their choices, as long as they aren't hurting others in the process. Milton Friedman's book "Free to Choose" is a good introduction if you're interested in more.
- dTal 7y agoThe process of making sure people aren't hurting others is called "government" and "regulation", which self-professed Libertarians appear to be against. They say things like "the FDA is stupid, the free market will sort it out" - when the FDA was created because the free market was killing people. Vis a vis classism, if you refuse to regulate and allow everyone to be "free to choose", you are essentially advocating a dog-eat-dog world where people with money and power consolidate more and more of it. This is "feudalism" and it generally results in a raw deal for the poor.
- WalterBright 7y ago> which self-professed Libertarians appear to be against. That's conflating Anarchists with Libertarians. Libertarians are not Anarchists. Feudalism is something different altogether.
- mftrhu 7y ago> Libertarians are not Anarchists. Unless with "libertarians" you are referring to ancaps, this is just false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Rise_of_anarchism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#Rise_of_anarchi...
- WalterBright 7y agoLibertarianism relies on government to enforce peoples' rights. Anarchism is fundamentally different.
- claudeganon 7y ago>Milton Friedman's book "Free to Choose" is a good introduction if you're interested in more. At some point you have to acknowledge the irony at refusing to see Libertarianism as anti-poor ideology, while simultaneously pointing people to a man who worked (and trained others to work with at the University if Chicago) far right dictators like Pinochet.
- aqzw 7y agoIt is the height of irony to blame "anti-poor" on libertarians in Germany, when it was the SPD and the CDU who destroyed the welfare state. Libertarians are anti-parasite, and that is what the civil servants and their state TV are afraid of. But people still believe the propaganda.