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Access to opportunities for more income also didn't exist either. The article specifically references serfs(!!!), possibly the most difficult economic class to

Access to opportunities for more income also didn't exist either. The article specifically references serfs(!!!), possibly the most difficult economic class to escape, as the example. Cars, computers, phones, and health insurance also didn't exist back then, and neither did social mobility. Give people visible improvements to quality of living and also the opportunities to attain them and it seems logical to me that people on average would work more, not less. Note that I am one of those people who would predict that UBI would not reduce people propensity to work because it just doesn't make sense economically. I think most people's utility curves want the benefits of extra income OVER the benefit of leisure. It's security over enjoyment, which is not out of the ordinary for human value functions.

ptah 7y ago
> Give people visible improvements to quality of living and also the opportunities to attain them and it seems logical to me that people on average would work more, not less. this is not how it happened and quality of life is not an objective measure. factory owners needed workers so they lobbied to have common land used for grazing and growing crops to be grabbed by land owners and forced people into cities to fill factories with cheap labour.
- abdullahkhalids 7y ago
  From Cory Doctorow's Walkaway: Seth said: "Insert tragedy of the commons here." Natalie put her hands up. "You know, I've heard the term 'tragedy of the commons' like a thousand times and I've never actually looked it up. What is it? Something to do with poor people being tragic?" "That's commoners," Hubert, Etc said. Something was awake and loose inside him now. He wanted to kick the pizza off the coffee table and use it for a stage. "Commons. Common land that belongs to no one. Villages had commons where anyone could bring their livestock for a day's grazing. The tragedy part is that if the land isn't anyone's, then someone will come along and let their sheep eat until there's nothing but mud. Everyone knows that that bastard is on the way, so they might as well be that bastard. Better that sheep belonging to a nice guy like you should fill their bellies than the grass going to some selfish dickhead's sheep." "Sounds like bullshit to me." "Oh, it is," Hubert, Etc said. The thing was moving in his guts, setting his balls and face tingling. "It's more than mere bullshit. It's searing, evil, world-changing bullshit. The solution to the tragedy of the commons isn't to get a cop to make sure sociopaths aren't overgrazing the land, or shunning anyone who does it, turning him into a pariah. The solution is to let a robber-baron own the land that used to be everyone's, because once he's running it for profit, he'll take exquisite care to generate profit forever." "That's the tragedy of the commons? A fairy tale about giving public assets to rich people to run as personal empires because, that way they'll make sure they're better managed than they would be if we just made up some rules? God, my dad must love that story."
  - ptah 7y ago
    yes, also land owners enclosed the areas and reserved it for their own use during early capitalist era
deleted 7y ago
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lazyjones 7y ago
> Cars, computers, phones, and health insurance also didn't exist back then, and neither did social mobility. Also: proper lighting, especially outdoors. An important prerequisite for many jobs, so the length of a work day had natural limits.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  That mostly meant rising earlier, with the light, rather than the arbitrary hours of today enabled by artificial light. Only during the depths of winter or those in the most northern or southern latitudes had appreciable shortening.

ptah 7y ago

> Give people visible improvements to quality of living and also the opportunities to attain them and it seems logical to me that people on average would work more, not less. this is not how it happened and quality of life is not an objective measure. factory owners needed workers so they lobbied to have common land used for grazing and growing crops to be grabbed by land owners and forced people into cities to fill factories with cheap labour.

abdullahkhalids 7y ago
From Cory Doctorow's Walkaway: Seth said: "Insert tragedy of the commons here." Natalie put her hands up. "You know, I've heard the term 'tragedy of the commons' like a thousand times and I've never actually looked it up. What is it? Something to do with poor people being tragic?" "That's commoners," Hubert, Etc said. Something was awake and loose inside him now. He wanted to kick the pizza off the coffee table and use it for a stage. "Commons. Common land that belongs to no one. Villages had commons where anyone could bring their livestock for a day's grazing. The tragedy part is that if the land isn't anyone's, then someone will come along and let their sheep eat until there's nothing but mud. Everyone knows that that bastard is on the way, so they might as well be that bastard. Better that sheep belonging to a nice guy like you should fill their bellies than the grass going to some selfish dickhead's sheep." "Sounds like bullshit to me." "Oh, it is," Hubert, Etc said. The thing was moving in his guts, setting his balls and face tingling. "It's more than mere bullshit. It's searing, evil, world-changing bullshit. The solution to the tragedy of the commons isn't to get a cop to make sure sociopaths aren't overgrazing the land, or shunning anyone who does it, turning him into a pariah. The solution is to let a robber-baron own the land that used to be everyone's, because once he's running it for profit, he'll take exquisite care to generate profit forever." "That's the tragedy of the commons? A fairy tale about giving public assets to rich people to run as personal empires because, that way they'll make sure they're better managed than they would be if we just made up some rules? God, my dad must love that story."
- ptah 7y ago
  yes, also land owners enclosed the areas and reserved it for their own use during early capitalist era

deleted 7y ago

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lazyjones 7y ago

> Cars, computers, phones, and health insurance also didn't exist back then, and neither did social mobility. Also: proper lighting, especially outdoors. An important prerequisite for many jobs, so the length of a work day had natural limits.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
That mostly meant rising earlier, with the light, rather than the arbitrary hours of today enabled by artificial light. Only during the depths of winter or those in the most northern or southern latitudes had appreciable shortening.