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There are plenty bosses like this in Germany, which doesn't have as much of a history of slavery. I'd wager that when looking at countries with roughly the sam

There are plenty bosses like this in Germany, which doesn't have as much of a history of slavery. I'd wager that when looking at countries with roughly the same level of industrialization, whether humans view fellow humans as something more than mere resources is linked to a certain set of attitudes. I'd guess that reduced working hours are positively correlated to pluralism and pacifism, and perhaps negatively correlated to religiousness. The more you think that life ought to be lived a certain way, the more likely you are to see work as a savior from straying from that way. Looking at countries that have severely mistreated minorities, natives or remote people might also reveal a correlation, the more so the less this is part of the public consciousness.

feviskus 7y ago
Just an anecdote from quitting yesterday at a German IG-Metall company: Yesterday I quitted my working student job in order to precipitately take the opportunity for an internship at another company. My boss congratulated me for the offer, said it's a pity that I leave AND spoke with HR so that I do have a shorter period of notice (otherwise I would have had problems). All on the same day. While accompanying me on my way out he said that especially with students, he invests in people. The doors are always open and he would be glad to see me there again. In fact, he recommended a former student worker to join another company before graduation in order to have a better looking CV. Im kinda blown away by this non-selfish (in a company's view) behaviour and strongly consider to rejoin at some point.
- rusticpenn 7y ago
  Yeah, IG metall companies are in general better to work in.
- kortilla 7y ago
  I received a similar experience choosing an offer from a different tech company over staying at my current one in the US. I could still easily return today even though it’s been three years. Only stupid companies get angry at employees lured away by others.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  > Im kinda blown away by this non-selfish (in a company's view) behaviour and strongly consider to rejoin at some point. The beauty of capitalism is that it rewards such altruistic behavior - in that you may rejoin them in the future.
  - dTal 7y ago
    If the behavior is rewarded, it is not altruistic but self-interested, which is the true nature of things that capitalism rewards. It is not true in the general case that altruism aligns with self-interest, which is precisely the problem with capitalism.
    - WalterBright 7y ago
      > It is not true in the general case that altruism aligns with self-interest Actually, it is true. Treating your customers, employees and associates results in them wanting to do business with you, which increases profits. Treat them badly, they go away and deal with someone else. Put simply, you aren't going to go the extra mile for someone you hate.
- wil421 7y ago
  I quit my job last September and had the same experience with my boss in the US. Almost word for word they said the same thing. Both bosses were good bosses and sounds like your boss was a good manager too.
ido 7y ago
Oh man, either you have a completely different experience than me or you don't know what it's like working elsewhere. I'm Israeli & spent the last 6 years living in Germany. I lived in Austria for 8 years before that. Israel is quite a dog-eat-dog hyper-capitalism kind of economy, maybe not to the wild extent of the US but definitely closer to it than to Germany & Austria (the two countries have very similar culture/attitudes in this particular area). While there are plenty of asshole bosses here, the kind of attitude common in hyper-capitalist countries is not comparable. Even the assholes will not dare publicly espouse the kind of Libertarian anti-working-class vitriol in a Berlin working place (or even outside of it). How often did you hear your German boss say that the state should not offer welfare as it's just supporting laziness? Or that "taxes are theft"? That whatever work "the free market" doesn't directly support via consumers spending money should not exist (e.g. publicly funded theatre)?
- WalterBright 7y ago
  > Libertarian anti-working-class vitriol Libertarians are not anti-working-class.
  - ido 7y ago
    Maybe anti-poor is a better description? Could also be that I only notice the assholes and the milder form of libertarians just don't stick out as much :)
    - WalterBright 7y ago
      > Maybe anti-poor is a better description? No. Libertarians are against any sort of class system (i.e. legal privileges for certain groups). They are neither anti-rich nor anti-poor. Of course, there are libertarians who are jerks, but that isn't what Libertarianism is about. Also, most people only hear about Libertarianism from non-Libertarians, hence they only hear negative things about it. Libertarianism is mainly about people being free to choose, and being responsible for their choices, as long as they aren't hurting others in the process. Milton Friedman's book "Free to Choose" is a good introduction if you're interested in more.
odiroot 7y ago
> There are plenty bosses like this in Germany, which doesn't have as much of a history of slavery. Excuse me? My grandma was a slave worker in Germany. Kidnapped from the streets of Warsaw and forcefully moved to Southwest Germany to work for a rich farmer.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  "Not much of" does not seem to significantly conflict with your single anecdote.
  - jaynetics 7y ago
    I purposefully wrote "not as much of", because NS-Zwangsarbeit was indeed massive. It happened in the main part from 1939-1945, with a total of 8 million people enslaved at one point or another. On the other hand, US slavery went on for three centuries, with a peak number of 4 million slaves and also about 8 million affected in total. The time scale is why I think there is a major difference, both in terms of life years stolen as well as in terms of possible social and cultural adaptation or accustomizaton to slavery, the latter being the point of the OP.

feviskus 7y ago

Just an anecdote from quitting yesterday at a German IG-Metall company: Yesterday I quitted my working student job in order to precipitately take the opportunity for an internship at another company. My boss congratulated me for the offer, said it's a pity that I leave AND spoke with HR so that I do have a shorter period of notice (otherwise I would have had problems). All on the same day. While accompanying me on my way out he said that especially with students, he invests in people. The doors are always open and he would be glad to see me there again. In fact, he recommended a former student worker to join another company before graduation in order to have a better looking CV. Im kinda blown away by this non-selfish (in a company's view) behaviour and strongly consider to rejoin at some point.

rusticpenn 7y ago
Yeah, IG metall companies are in general better to work in.
kortilla 7y ago
I received a similar experience choosing an offer from a different tech company over staying at my current one in the US. I could still easily return today even though it’s been three years. Only stupid companies get angry at employees lured away by others.
WalterBright 7y ago
> Im kinda blown away by this non-selfish (in a company's view) behaviour and strongly consider to rejoin at some point. The beauty of capitalism is that it rewards such altruistic behavior - in that you may rejoin them in the future.
- dTal 7y ago
  If the behavior is rewarded, it is not altruistic but self-interested, which is the true nature of things that capitalism rewards. It is not true in the general case that altruism aligns with self-interest, which is precisely the problem with capitalism.
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    > It is not true in the general case that altruism aligns with self-interest Actually, it is true. Treating your customers, employees and associates results in them wanting to do business with you, which increases profits. Treat them badly, they go away and deal with someone else. Put simply, you aren't going to go the extra mile for someone you hate.
wil421 7y ago
I quit my job last September and had the same experience with my boss in the US. Almost word for word they said the same thing. Both bosses were good bosses and sounds like your boss was a good manager too.

ido 7y ago

Oh man, either you have a completely different experience than me or you don't know what it's like working elsewhere. I'm Israeli & spent the last 6 years living in Germany. I lived in Austria for 8 years before that. Israel is quite a dog-eat-dog hyper-capitalism kind of economy, maybe not to the wild extent of the US but definitely closer to it than to Germany & Austria (the two countries have very similar culture/attitudes in this particular area). While there are plenty of asshole bosses here, the kind of attitude common in hyper-capitalist countries is not comparable. Even the assholes will not dare publicly espouse the kind of Libertarian anti-working-class vitriol in a Berlin working place (or even outside of it). How often did you hear your German boss say that the state should not offer welfare as it's just supporting laziness? Or that "taxes are theft"? That whatever work "the free market" doesn't directly support via consumers spending money should not exist (e.g. publicly funded theatre)?

WalterBright 7y ago
> Libertarian anti-working-class vitriol Libertarians are not anti-working-class.
- ido 7y ago
  Maybe anti-poor is a better description? Could also be that I only notice the assholes and the milder form of libertarians just don't stick out as much :)
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    > Maybe anti-poor is a better description? No. Libertarians are against any sort of class system (i.e. legal privileges for certain groups). They are neither anti-rich nor anti-poor. Of course, there are libertarians who are jerks, but that isn't what Libertarianism is about. Also, most people only hear about Libertarianism from non-Libertarians, hence they only hear negative things about it. Libertarianism is mainly about people being free to choose, and being responsible for their choices, as long as they aren't hurting others in the process. Milton Friedman's book "Free to Choose" is a good introduction if you're interested in more.

odiroot 7y ago

> There are plenty bosses like this in Germany, which doesn't have as much of a history of slavery. Excuse me? My grandma was a slave worker in Germany. Kidnapped from the streets of Warsaw and forcefully moved to Southwest Germany to work for a rich farmer.

0xffff2 7y ago
"Not much of" does not seem to significantly conflict with your single anecdote.
- jaynetics 7y ago
  I purposefully wrote "not as much of", because NS-Zwangsarbeit was indeed massive. It happened in the main part from 1939-1945, with a total of 8 million people enslaved at one point or another. On the other hand, US slavery went on for three centuries, with a peak number of 4 million slaves and also about 8 million affected in total. The time scale is why I think there is a major difference, both in terms of life years stolen as well as in terms of possible social and cultural adaptation or accustomizaton to slavery, the latter being the point of the OP.