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Has there been any studies on adopting a baby? Does it yield the same results on men? If yes, then it might as well be a matter of social construct, where a new

Has there been any studies on adopting a baby? Does it yield the same results on men? If yes, then it might as well be a matter of social construct, where a new vulnerable addition to the group needs protection for example. Another curious question, it would be interesting to see the impact of adopting a cat or a dog on men’s testosterone levels.

isacikgoz 7y ago
> Another curious question, it would be interesting to see the impact of adopting a cat or a dog on men’s testosterone levels. Very interesting idea though. But all of this fathering thing is related with continue one's bloodline I guess. Humans are very motivated to maintain their lineage. Adopting pets may be related with another topic.
- tasty_freeze 7y ago
  > But all of this fathering thing is related with continue one's bloodline I guess. Can I safely assume you haven't adopted any children? I'm a parent of two adopted kids (now mostly grown). If you think what motivates me is any different than what motivates other fathers, you would be terribly mistaken. And here is my turn to speak without knowing: I imagine that if a father is too attached to the idea of the continuation of his genetic legacy, it may pressure the children to fulfill the father's idea of a legacy rather than find their own path.
keymon-o 7y ago
I'd guess the idea of this study is not that having a child of your own somehow directly alters your brain biologicaly, but the experience itself is just that intense. I find it much more interesting, the fact that most of the changes mother experiences might not be the "nature's wonder", but lasting, painful, traumatic and exciting experience itself that affects one's brain. Edit: And that itself has much deeper relation to a biological child than to adopting one. Not that adopting isn't significant or emotional, it's simply not that varying level of experience. > Another curious question, it would be interesting to see the impact of adopting a cat or a dog on men’s testosterone levels. I would compare this analogy to the opposite and unfortunate experience like the death of a close one. Losing someone that's biologically linked to you can be really hard even if you weren't that emotionally attached to that person. By comparing that to losing a friend outside of your family circle, which is also a very harsh experience, it seems that biological line would be an emotional line deeply attached to a person no matter what experience one has.
- drclau 7y ago
  > And that itself has much deeper relation to a biological child than to adopting one. Not that adopting isn't significant or emotional, it's simply not that varying level of experience. How do you know your child is actually biologically yours? Human fathers have no biological/natural means of identifying a child as theirs. So your hypothesis that having your own child va adopting is different does not stand. The father - child bond is a mental construct and I see absolutely no reason why adopting is lesser than biologically fathering a child.
  - NateEag 7y ago
    When conceiving children biologically, if you do not have reason to believe your partner has had sex with other men, the natural assumption is that the child is yours. Also, family resemblances do exist. Their absence doesn't disprove parentage, but their presence is evidence for it. When adopting, if you were not sexually active prior to adoption and have not donated sperm, you can be certain the child is not biologically yours. Even if you were active or a donor, you can still be very confident the kid is likely not yours. I think adoption is a wonderful thing and I am not trying to undercut it, but it seems entirely possible to me that those differences could impact the bond between a father and child.
    - keymon-o 7y ago
      Exactly. Stating that an adoption is same as having a child of your own, is going against all empirical evidence that a person has great emotional changes upon finding out about your own biological relation to someone. Maybe it is entirely psychological, but idea of a biological relation affects a person a great deal. I think most of the confusion here is coming from the idea that psychology can't be related to biology. However, I firmly believe that biology is the base of the psychology and you cannot alter psychology without altering the biology itself.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Typical non-paternity rate among people with self-reported high-confidence in paternity are around 2%. (That’s much higher than I’d have thought, but lower than the commonly cited 10% figure, which is driven by a selection bias in who takes paternity tests in the overall case.)

isacikgoz 7y ago

> Another curious question, it would be interesting to see the impact of adopting a cat or a dog on men’s testosterone levels. Very interesting idea though. But all of this fathering thing is related with continue one's bloodline I guess. Humans are very motivated to maintain their lineage. Adopting pets may be related with another topic.

tasty_freeze 7y ago
> But all of this fathering thing is related with continue one's bloodline I guess. Can I safely assume you haven't adopted any children? I'm a parent of two adopted kids (now mostly grown). If you think what motivates me is any different than what motivates other fathers, you would be terribly mistaken. And here is my turn to speak without knowing: I imagine that if a father is too attached to the idea of the continuation of his genetic legacy, it may pressure the children to fulfill the father's idea of a legacy rather than find their own path.

keymon-o 7y ago

I'd guess the idea of this study is not that having a child of your own somehow directly alters your brain biologicaly, but the experience itself is just that intense. I find it much more interesting, the fact that most of the changes mother experiences might not be the "nature's wonder", but lasting, painful, traumatic and exciting experience itself that affects one's brain. Edit: And that itself has much deeper relation to a biological child than to adopting one. Not that adopting isn't significant or emotional, it's simply not that varying level of experience. > Another curious question, it would be interesting to see the impact of adopting a cat or a dog on men’s testosterone levels. I would compare this analogy to the opposite and unfortunate experience like the death of a close one. Losing someone that's biologically linked to you can be really hard even if you weren't that emotionally attached to that person. By comparing that to losing a friend outside of your family circle, which is also a very harsh experience, it seems that biological line would be an emotional line deeply attached to a person no matter what experience one has.

drclau 7y ago
> And that itself has much deeper relation to a biological child than to adopting one. Not that adopting isn't significant or emotional, it's simply not that varying level of experience. How do you know your child is actually biologically yours? Human fathers have no biological/natural means of identifying a child as theirs. So your hypothesis that having your own child va adopting is different does not stand. The father - child bond is a mental construct and I see absolutely no reason why adopting is lesser than biologically fathering a child.
- NateEag 7y ago
  When conceiving children biologically, if you do not have reason to believe your partner has had sex with other men, the natural assumption is that the child is yours. Also, family resemblances do exist. Their absence doesn't disprove parentage, but their presence is evidence for it. When adopting, if you were not sexually active prior to adoption and have not donated sperm, you can be certain the child is not biologically yours. Even if you were active or a donor, you can still be very confident the kid is likely not yours. I think adoption is a wonderful thing and I am not trying to undercut it, but it seems entirely possible to me that those differences could impact the bond between a father and child.
  - keymon-o 7y ago
    Exactly. Stating that an adoption is same as having a child of your own, is going against all empirical evidence that a person has great emotional changes upon finding out about your own biological relation to someone. Maybe it is entirely psychological, but idea of a biological relation affects a person a great deal. I think most of the confusion here is coming from the idea that psychology can't be related to biology. However, I firmly believe that biology is the base of the psychology and you cannot alter psychology without altering the biology itself.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Typical non-paternity rate among people with self-reported high-confidence in paternity are around 2%. (That’s much higher than I’d have thought, but lower than the commonly cited 10% figure, which is driven by a selection bias in who takes paternity tests in the overall case.)